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Thread: Hb1062

  1. #1
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    Hb1062

    HB 1062 is scheduled for a hearing Wednesday 2/6 at 10:30 in room 432-A at the capitol.

    Text of Measure

    This bill would allow teachers or school administrators who complete a reserve officer training course to carry a firearm on school property.
    Last edited by hrdware; 02-04-2013 at 02:45 PM.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Regular Member donsadlerjr's Avatar
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    Hb1062

    Is any of this sourced on tv?

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    Quote Originally Posted by donsadlerjr View Post
    Is any of this sourced on tv?
    Committee meetings are not televised, I don't know if sessions of the full house are or not. This particular committee meets in a room with streaming audio though. Here is a link to the audio stream: http://www.okhouse.gov:8091/432A.html

    The audio stream will only work when the meeting is in progress.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Audio Link

    I tried the audio link and it is still not coming up. Called the capital and left a message for a guy named TJ. Hopefully he will call me back

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    HB1062 passed out of committee today and will now be eligible to be placed on the calendar for the full house.

    Even if this bill passes and gets the governors signature, it requires local school districts to create policies to allow teachers and administrators to carry firearms.

    Here are some key points from the hearing:

    School districts would have to work with a local police department or a local sheriffs department to send teachers to CLEET to get training.

    This would mean teachers and administrators would be reserve officers and be somewhat like a school district police force.

    Superintendents seem to not be in support of this but teachers and parents are.

    Many schools are hiring off duty police officers and are assuming the liability for the off duty officers. Schools should assume the liability for CLEET certified teachers as well.

    This is not an all or nothing bill, it would give school districts the ability to implement if they wanted, but they are not required to do so. School districts can make the best plan they think will work for them.

    Local school districts would pay for the CLEET certifications. There is a background check to get into CLEET and districts could also set their own policy on who could go.

    Superintendent of Wagoner schools spoke and did not support this idea. There have only been 3 school shootings in OK. One was outside the school and was targeted at an individual, the other 2 were suicides. Thinks LEO should take care of this and thinks there will be more accidental discharges so the risk does not benefit the reward. Also wonders if a teacher could shoot a student they had developed a bond with.

    An under sheriff from Tulsa spoke about their reserve program. He supports the bill and said they have a few teachers in their reserve force. Many active shooter scenarios involve a team response, but if you are the only officer there than, "some days it just sucks to be a cop".
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  6. #6
    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Hb1062

    I'm glad it is something they passed, now it can be heard and voted on. It's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Though I do agree with giving our teachers the option to be armed if they so choose, whether or not they accept the fact that not only are they to teach our children they are also to protect our children, just like a baby sitter is to protect our children from hurting themselves and from being hurt by others including a bad guy with a gun. 911 is not a protector, neither is a single officer in a back room on the phone with his girlfriend or playing with his tazer.

    I do not agree with making them police in order to do so. Unless of corse we agree with making our state a police state, which I strongly disagree with. We do not need teachers being able to arrest our kids at school, talk about making our schools like a jail, wow! Kid goes to school having a bully pick on him and tried to protect him/herself and gets arrested for disorderly conduct instead of ISS, yeah that will make our kids safer!

    Yes, give the teachers and staff the option to be armed, but required a real world environment specific training course with continuing updates every six months.

    And instead of letting our imagination run wild with the what if bs like the anti crowd continually tries to use, let's look at the factual historical evidence from places and schools that already have guns in school. I'm so tried of the lack of responsibility projected by the left upon every gun owner. Granted their are some that need improvement in that area not all are the same as the factual historical evidence shows and discredits the what if bs. What if I step outside and get hit by a car or what if I get in a car I might get hit by a drunk driver, has never stopped us from going out. Just as the what ifs should never ever limit us from protecting our children but should motivate us to give our children the same protection at school the same protection they get at home!!
    Last edited by Robert318; 02-09-2013 at 01:18 PM.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Mhostetter's Avatar
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    Hb1062

    I fully support the idea but I'm curious about why they need CLEET certification? That seems to be excessive and would they be commissioned and be required to fulfill minimum hours each month as an LEO? I'm sure someone will speak up but I don't think an armed security guard gets near the amount of classroom time it takes for CLEET certification as a reserve LEO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mhostetter View Post
    I fully support the idea but I'm curious about why they need CLEET certification? That seems to be excessive and would they be commissioned and be required to fulfill minimum hours each month as an LEO? I'm sure someone will speak up but I don't think an armed security guard gets near the amount of classroom time it takes for CLEET certification as a reserve LEO.
    I am in no way qualified to speak to the very specifics of the bill as I have not read it, however lets look at this from the perspective of parents in the major metropolitan areas of the state, most of which I would say are probably not firearms owners.

    If you were trying to argue in favor of teachers being armed, you will probably get more to agree with you if you tell them the training will be the same training reserve police officer get as opposed to they had the 8 hour training to get their handgun license, or we created a special training just for this purpose.

    It's all about how the bill is presented to the masses.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  10. #10
    Regular Member Mhostetter's Avatar
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    Hb1062

    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    I am in no way qualified to speak to the very specifics of the bill as I have not read it, however lets look at this from the perspective of parents in the major metropolitan areas of the state, most of which I would say are probably not firearms owners.

    If you were trying to argue in favor of teachers being armed, you will probably get more to agree with you if you tell them the training will be the same training reserve police officer get as opposed to they had the 8 hour training to get their handgun license, or we created a special training just for this purpose.

    It's all about how the bill is presented to the masses.
    I see it as a way to deter the teachers from trying to get the certification.

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    Teacher Training Course versus Reserve Officer Training

    I beleive that a special training program should be implemented for teachers instead of Reserve Officer Training.
    This would eliminate the need for them to know traffic laws and other laws that are required for law enforcement.
    What they need to focus on is how to stop an active shooter that has broken into a secured area.
    Identifacation, apprehension, scene portection, proper recording of facts concerning the situation, secure weapons management and maintenance.
    A program like this would be more beneficial to a school system then writing tickets for students illegally parking in the worng place.
    A program like this is not for all teachers as not all teachers have a mindset to perform this function.
    This would be a voluntary program for those interested in survival and protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gprod55 View Post
    I beleive that a special training program should be implemented for teachers instead of Reserve Officer Training.
    This would eliminate the need for them to know traffic laws and other laws that are required for law enforcement.
    The only thing a teacher who carries needs to know is what they had to know to get their license.

    We don't need to turn teachers into cops, or mini-cops. We just need to stop banning them from carrying.

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    Exclamation 1062

    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    HB1062 passed out of committee today and will now be eligible to be placed on the calendar for the full house.

    Even if this bill passes and gets the governors signature, it requires local school districts to create policies to allow teachers and administrators to carry firearms.

    Here are some key points from the hearing:

    School districts would have to work with a local police department or a local sheriffs department to send teachers to CLEET to get training.

    This would mean teachers and administrators would be reserve officers and be somewhat like a school district police force.

    Superintendents seem to not be in support of this but teachers and parents are.

    Many schools are hiring off duty police officers and are assuming the liability for the off duty officers. Schools should assume the liability for CLEET certified teachers as well.

    This is not an all or nothing bill, it would give school districts the ability to implement if they wanted, but they are not required to do so. School districts can make the best plan they think will work for them.

    Local school districts would pay for the CLEET certifications. There is a background check to get into CLEET and districts could also set their own policy on who could go.

    Superintendent of Wagoner schools spoke and did not support this idea. There have only been 3 school shootings in OK. One was outside the school and was targeted at an individual, the other 2 were suicides. Thinks LEO should take care of this and thinks there will be more accidental discharges so the risk does not benefit the reward. Also wonders if a teacher could shoot a student they had developed a bond with.

    An under sheriff from Tulsa spoke about their reserve program. He supports the bill and said they have a few teachers in their reserve force. Many active shooter scenarios involve a team response, but if you are the only officer there than, "some days it just sucks to be a cop".
    Most teachers DO NOT support this bill and neither do superintendents. Read all the bill and al amendments. Many thing s and issues are unknown by the teachers and general population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy28 View Post
    Most teachers DO NOT support this bill and neither do superintendents. Read all the bill and al amendments. Many thing s and issues are unknown by the teachers and general population.
    That's fine, I don't trust most teachers anyways. Hence why the wife and I are looking at homeschooling them. Though since you apparently are well educated on this bill you would like to inform us of the various issues with it and what has been slipped into the amendments that are so bad?

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy28 View Post
    Most teachers DO NOT support this bill and neither do superintendents. Read all the bill and al amendments. Many thing s and issues are unknown by the teachers and general population.
    Man I am so tired of hearing people belittle teachers packing heat. In the 1990s some idiot smoking crack thought that just putting up a sign would deter crime. Well the reality is it attracts crime. On a flip side signs welcoming carry seem to deter crime bettr. We argue that arming teachers is a bad idea so instead of arming people who may make a difference we should continue to allow criminals to come in and murder babies? Instead of taking a chance with someone who passes a background check and has no criminal history we instead should continue to allow murders free roam?

    We say thats what police are for yet in every instance by the time they arrive dozens of lives are lost and the police at best only keep spectators out after the carnage. We say we want to put police in schools yet everyone says that this wont work either. Well hello the police not being there definately is not working. We say we could use security guards and idiots throw up a gun in school could be dangerous. Well we see what no good guns in schools doing.

    Why is it when we come up with something everyone wants to leave things the way they are and make a new law. Look at history and see where these things led.
    in the 1700s England imposed a weapons embargo. We simply started making our own.
    in the 1800s we tried to regulate the wild west in many towns and look at the results where villans tore up towns.
    In the 1900s we tried to regulate booze and it gave rise to gangsters.
    in the 1960s we tried to regulate marijuana and look what its gotten us.
    in the 1980s they passed stricter laws about fully auto machine guns and look at the L.A. bank robbery heist in the 90s. Man those guys were scared werent they.
    in the 1980s they passed tougher laws on DUI and look how many people daily still do it.
    is it not illegal to drive without drivers license? Guess how many daily do it.
    What about illegal to drive without insurances? Guesses?
    What about speeding (Not talking 5 or so over I am talking well over 100.) How many do it?
    Murder has been illegal for how long?
    What about rape?
    Child porn?
    Domestic violence?
    What about Movie and music piracy?

    Yet we are supposed to believe one more gun law will make a difference?

    ARM The teachers already and start making a positive difference!

  16. #16
    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    If a teacher, administrator, staff, or anyone else has a valid carry license, they should be able to carry in school. They are Not in class to be law enforcement any more than anyone with a carry license will walk the streets playing law enforcement. They will be armed because they are willing to be a sheepdog. Call me an insane radical if you want, but I am even in favor of teachers, etc., open carrying in school, if it is their choice to do so.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    I agree I have no problem arming teachers period. We already know what teachers are willing to do now to protect the children, imagine if they had a Firearm as well.

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    One problem today is so many parents say they care about their children but I believe it is mostly a front. Actions speak louder than words!! If they truly cared then why would they set their children up for a fall, like not making them wear a seatbelt, letting them play in the street, etc.., not teaching them to make good decisions, manners, morals, etc.. One example here recently is the two kids trying to car surf, tragic yes but even more tragic is the parents obviously didn't teach them about carelessness and the risk or consequence of doing crap like that so the kids had to learn the hard way.

    Why would anyone not want to enable those with possession of your children over half of the day the ability to affectively not only teach them but protect them. To me that's a no brainier!! Must be something in the food and drink, oh wait there is aspartame, fluoride, artificial sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup, etc..

    Seems very hypocritical that people trust teachers enough to leave them alone at school but not enough to trust them with tools to protect them.

    And for those teachers that say its not their job to protect them that's what security or the police are for. I say that's hog wash and they need to wake up and or quit being lazy!! Of course it's part of your job to protect them, their lives and futures are in your hands!! People need to realize safety is your own responsibility it is not someone else's responsibility to keep you and those in your care safe!!

    Also I don't understand the logic of always having to give up our rights or something to appease evil and or emotion so we can obtain or affirm something that is already ours and or should have never been stolen to begin with, one thing worse than a crook is a legal crook. They don't need to be cops!! Yes better than normal training, like real world school environment training but they don't and should not be cops!!
    Last edited by Robert318; 03-25-2013 at 09:45 AM.
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert318 View Post
    One problem today is so many parents say they care about their children but I believe it is mostly a front. Actions speak louder than words!! If they truly cared then why would they set their children up for a fall, like not making them wear a seatbelt, letting them play in the street, etc.., not teaching them to make good decisions, manners, morals, etc.. One example here recently is the two kids trying to car surf, tragic yes but even more tragic is the parents obviously didn't teach them about carelessness and the risk or consequence of doing crap like that so the kids had to learn the hard way.

    Why would anyone not want to enable those with possession of your children over half of the day the ability to affectively not only teach them but protect them. To me that's a no brainier!! Must be something in the food and drink, oh wait there is aspartame, fluoride, artificial sweeteners, high fructose corn syrup, etc..

    Seems very hypocritical that people trust teachers enough to leave them alone at school but not enough to trust them with tools to protect them.

    And for those teachers that say its not their job to protect them that's what security or the police are for. I say that's hog wash and they need to wake up and or quit being lazy!! Of course it's part of your job to protect them, their lives and futures are in your hands!! People need to realize safety is your own responsibility it is not someone else's responsibility to keep you and those in your care safe!!
    That is so true. The sad part is I know there are teachers that are already licensed to carry a Firearm along with other staff like the principal. And they have no problems with it but we need to get the gun free zone done away with.

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