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Thread: "thou shalt not kill"

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    "thou shalt not kill"

    If all these Democrats would just stand with the "10 Commandents" and just enforce the "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" in stead of being a bunch of "mouth pieces and flapping lips" this country might return to it's previous glory. Democrats and Liberals are more concerned with backing the ACLU, protecting criminals rights and giving away tax payers money than having a strong AMERICA. As one gentleman has posted in his signature on a firearms forum, " there are fewer people who work for a living than vote for a living", this has got to stop. AMERICA has got to wake up or we will all be toast. I will be glad when Arizona has ocean front property! GOD BLESS AMERICA!

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Except that the line actually reads "don't murder" (don't kill unlawfully).
    And what does this have to do with NM or OC?
    ETA strikeout... I see the thread has been moved.

    BTW, this is an informative essay about self-defense, using citations from the bible
    http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/
    And if you google [biblical self defense] you'll find others.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 02-05-2013 at 11:55 AM.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elebuttfish View Post
    If all these Democrats would just stand with the "10 Commandents" and just enforce the "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" in stead of being a bunch of "mouth pieces and flapping lips" this country might return to it's previous glory. Democrats and Liberals are more concerned with backing the ACLU, protecting criminals rights and giving away tax payers money than having a strong AMERICA. As one gentleman has posted in his signature on a firearms forum, " there are fewer people who work for a living than vote for a living", this has got to stop. AMERICA has got to wake up or we will all be toast. I will be glad when Arizona has ocean front property! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
    THOUGH SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER"

    The line that you are presenting is a perversion of the Christian teachings.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    "thou shalt not kill"

    They fixed the translation in many of the newer versions of the bible but tons still say kill.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elebuttfish View Post
    If all these Democrats would just stand with the "10 Commandents" and just enforce the "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" in stead of ....
    I'll bet you approve of stonings and witch burnings, too. That stuff is in the Bible. There are lots more than just "The 10 Commandments" that the faithful are supposed to follow/obey/adhere to. Quite a few of them involve killing folks, like the thief in the night and the enemy of the state, to name but two.

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    First, go watch "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" to get the context. Second, if after putting it in context you are offended, I consider my job accomplished.
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    There is a difference between OT law and statements that define sin, such as the Ten Commandments. Christianity teaches us that we have been freed from following the minutiae of the OT law. We are still expected not to sin, which means, among other things, following the Ten Commandments. Through Grace our sins are forgiven, but that is not intended as a license to sin.

    So a person advocating the following of the Ten Commandments is not being inconsistent from a Christian standpoint if he does not advocate for following OT law.

    I am surprised to see you mocking Christianity. I have always expected and observed respect for others from you. This is very disappointing.

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    I think that statement is a bit strong. I have run into two kinds of atheists: True non-believers who just don't care what anyone else believes because they see that belief as inconsequential, and militant atheists who work hard to try to stop everyone from believing in God using everything from mockery to lawsuits.

    The only explanation I have for the latter is that they really do believe in God, but are just trying to deny his Sovereignty over everything. Otherwise, they'd just look on believers like I would look on someone who uses horoscopes to make life decisions. They are a curiosity. I would think they have an inexplicable quirk, but we all do, so meh.

    But, when the militant atheist makes all manner of effort to mock and to attack the beliefs of others, it must be because his professed, but unreal, nonbelief is being convicted by the Spirit, and so he feels the need to fight back, rather than submit to the authority of God.

    Just my theory. However, I just realized that there would be an interesting corollary! If the militism with which he is responding is, in turn, a response to the Spirit convicting him, then militant atheists must be those whom God is trying to call, as opposed to true non-believers whom God is making no effort to reach!

    I should change how I react to militant atheism. From now on, my response to militant atheism will be to throw a little Good News at their wall and see if any of it sticks. If God is indeed doing a Paul-job on them, my role would be to assist!

    Nice job, Spirit, slappin' me upside the head with that one!

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    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    "thou shalt not kill"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    another fine example of proof there is no such thing as an atheist. they are all just christian haters.
    We aren't all Christian haters. It's just irritating when believers(of any faith not just Christians) cherry pick what they do or do not like from their respective holy books. Atheism is a non belief in all Gods/Goddesses. Nothing more nothing less. As far as the militant atheists mentioned I have seen those but they usually come about when theists push evangelically just a bit to far. A good amount of us are ex-theists and some study theology in the search for a better understanding of humanity. In doing so we often have a much broader and detailed understanding of the holy books in which some like to misquote to suit their agenda.. Yes some atheists are pricks but the majority aren't. That goes for both sides. I'll leave you with a quote:

    “We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

    ― Richard Dawkins

    .02,

    -Sorcice.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    this thread is all over the place . from a rant about liberals in CA to christian hating atheist


    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    THOUGH SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER"

    The line that you are presenting is a perversion of the Christian teachings.
    i believe it is in the teachings from Christ , since he told us to buy weapons for self defense
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    this thread is all over the place . from a rant about liberals in CA to christian hating atheist




    i believe it is in the teachings from Christ , since he told us to buy weapons for self defense
    We were told to take up arms to defend ourselves. Killing in defense is not murder.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    another fine example of proof there is no such thing as an atheist. they are all just christian haters.
    So have you decided to troll here full-time?

    I would ask if you are sad your racist thread was canned, but that thread itself would seem to suggest that, whatever's going on with you, it happened before then.

    Do you want to talk about it? I'm sure the forum would be willing to discuss what has led you to view us as the appropriate receptacle for your verbal garbage.

    Or maybe you should just cut to the chase and sign up here, where you will find nobody says anything negative about religion or American imperialism, and everyone hates hispanics:

    http://www.stormfront.org/forum/
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-06-2013 at 01:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    THOUGH SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER"
    It's one of the top three misunderstood verses, along with "eye for an eye" (which is a limitation, not a mandate), and the love of money being the root of all evil.

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    Regular Member McLintock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elebuttfish View Post
    If all these Democrats would just stand with the "10 Commandents" and just enforce the "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" in stead of being a bunch of "mouth pieces and flapping lips" this country might return to it's previous glory.
    What exactly are you aiming your "flapping lip" at? It is not just the dumb-o-crats and just not the grand old party, its both. The minority always makes the loudest noise, and that is the ACLU and the gun control people. And yes if we, as a country, go back to the 10 Commandments, as our rule of law we will be in better shape, but evil and mindless people are still going to be here and that is why the Founders use the 10 Commandments, not because all the Founders were Christian, only a few were, but because it is a moral standard and that is why they are the foundation of our laws.
    Last edited by McLintock; 02-07-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    "thou shalt not kill"

    This ^

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    "thou shalt not kill"

    Then you are being unrealistic.

    Government should not establish a religion. Government should not interfere with your practice of religion.

    The above are realistic restrictions on government, and all that are necessary


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    Quote Originally Posted by Devin Hutchison View Post
    I firmly believe religion and government should not mix whatsoever.
    This statement is very vague. What do you mean by religion? Keep in mind that something is not religious/religion simply because it has its origin in writings considered religious.

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    If we leave God the creator out of our government we will soon be communist, as it is their foundation of government, nothing higher than man. And I agree with eye95, the Founders knew what would happen to religion if the state was involved thats why we have the 1st Amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, so how are ya'll going to stop the elected official from being religious or believing in God?
    Last edited by McLintock; 02-09-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLintock View Post
    If we leave God the creator out of our government we will soon be communist, as it is their foundation of government, nothing higher than man.


    Seriously, where do people come up with this nonsense?

    I tell you what: you get to have your "God" in our government, when I get to have Flying Spaghetti Monster references anywhere I want. Deal?

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    Oh, so we are going to limit their freedoms of expression and religion--unless that expression happens to resemble atheism.

    We are all equal. Some are more equal than others.

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    Regular Member McLintock's Avatar
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    Religion "Any objective attended to or pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion". Because one acknowledges God and His morals Does not mean one is devoted to Him. Do you not see the moral standard in the 10 Commandments, if not what are you going to base your moral standards on? By the way atheism IS a religion!
    "Shoot low boys, their ridin' shetland ponies"

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    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    "thou shalt not kill"

    Atheism is to religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby. Atheism is literally the complete lack of belief. So no. Not a religion.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McLintock View Post
    Do you not see the moral standard in the 10 Commandments, if not what are you going to base your moral standards on?
    The majority of libertarians espouse the Principle of non-aggression, which was espoused by Jesus (although not the 10 commandments), according the only bible I keep a copy of.

    It is a standard of morality far more compatible with living, other cultures, and the teachings of Jesus (for those who believe those have inherent weight) than the 10 commandments could ever be.

    Where I live, I see people driving around all the time with these 10 commandments bumper stickers (always the same one, yet for some reason I can't find a picture on the internets) which say "one nation under GOD", the implication clearly being either that the 10 commandments provide the basis for our laws/moral standards, or they ought to if they currently do not.

    I would quite literally fight to the death to avoid living in a country with the 10 commandments enshrined in law.

    Let's see how many of the 10 commandments, enshrined in law, would be incompatible with the principle of non-aggression and with basic liberties (alternatively, even if you don't want to see them become law, let's see how many are plain ridiculous):

    10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
    Apparently now the law ought to be concerned with thoughts, rather than actions.

    My neighbor has a really nice Walther P-38. One day I'd like to buy one of my own. JAIL FOR ME!

    9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
    Some of the women in my past are now married. Sometimes, I still think about them. HELLFIRE ISN'T ENOUGH! JAIL!!!!!

    8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    I agree. So far we're at 1/10.

    7. You shall not steal.
    2/10. Although I note apparently this commandment doesn't, nor I believe would it should they be enshrined in law, apply to government.

    6. You shall not commit adultery.
    Well, at least we could use this one to jail 99% of politicians.

    But seriously, it's good that couples can decide for themselves whether to apply biblical proscriptions to their relationship, or how to react when those proscriptions are violated. That isn't something to be enshrined in law, to be handed down on high from our betters in government.

    5. You shall not kill [murder].
    Assuming it's murder, that's a good one. 3/10.

    4. Honor your father and your mother.
    I have, at some point in my life, had an argument with my parents, wherein I would have undoubtedly accrued some jail time were this law.

    I also point out that, in the real world, some parents are not deserving of respect, and in fact it may be detrimental to the child to hold any.

    3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.
    WTF is this? Sundays are already lame enough here in Virginia, with ABCs closed on Sunday in observance of TEH LAWD. No, thanks.

    2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    I will if I ******* want to. JAIL FOR ME!

    1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
    Fortunately, the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't strange (at least not compared to the abomination which came up with that ridiculous list), so I guess I'm good here. But then again, JAIL FOR ME!




    That's precisely 3/10 which have any bearing at all on "morality" as defined by anything other than the bible or related works, or have any place at all being enshrined in law. I could do better in a drunken stupor.

    You can keep your "commandments", and their false "morality".

    Frankly, I would ask in counter how a person has any developed morals at all, with nothing but the flimsy 10 commandments as a foundation. "Do not kill" and "do not steal" are the obvious ones children figure out.

    /rant
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-10-2013 at 11:47 AM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    The majority of libertarians espouse the Principle of non-aggression, which was espoused by Jesus (although not the 10 commandments), according the only bible I keep a copy of.

    It is a standard of morality far more compatible with living, other cultures, and the teachings of Jesus (for those who believe those have inherent weight) than the 10 commandments could ever be.

    Where I live, I see people driving around all the time with these 10 commandments bumper stickers (always the same one, yet for some reason I can't find a picture on the internets) which say "one nation under GOD", the implication clearly being either that the 10 commandments provide the basis for our laws/moral standards, or they ought to if they currently do not.

    I would quite literally fight to the death to avoid living in a country with the 10 commandments enshrined in law.

    Let's see how many of the 10 commandments, enshrined in law, would be incompatible with the principle of non-aggression and with basic liberties:





    /rant
    An additional thought that popped into my head while reading your post.

    The Israelites lived in a fairly anarchistic/libertarian society too, their prophet/religious leader Samuel warned them of imitating the nations around them in their desire for a King, and sure enough the establishment of a central power caused lots of problems.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The Israelites lived in a fairly anarchistic/libertarian society too, their prophet/religious leader Samuel warned them of imitating the nations around them in their desire for a King, and sure enough the establishment of a central power caused lots of problems.
    I recall reading a rather detailed analysis of the Old Testament in this vein, one which was explicitly libertarian. I suspect you may have read the same thing, as it's likely as not I was directed to it in the first place because someone posted it here. Do you remember what I'm talking about?

    I did find that quite an interesting piece, although it could be said that it's just another example of the myriad ways a "divine" text can be interpreted to suit the agenda of the interpreter.

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