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Thread: Melting Pot No Guns

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    Melting Pot No Guns

    Yesterday I was at the Melting Pot in OKC and they had a "No Guns" sign (I noticed it as we were leaving). Has anyone talked to them about it or know what their corporate policy is?

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    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Melting Pot No Guns

    I'll see what I can find out and contact them.
    Also, it never hurts to have a few "Letter to Businesses" printed out and in your car for situations like this.
    It could make a big impact if you are there face to face and say, this is what I just spent, and I won't be back if that sign stays up.

    I'll let you know what I find out .
    http://okoca.org/wp-content/uploads/...Businesses.pdf

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    I don't think that the OP's fingers are broke ....

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    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Melting Pot No Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I don't think that the OP's fingers are broke ....
    David, I don't disagree with you ,but I know some people my be hesitant to say anything to a business for whatever reason.
    I don't mind helping anyone on matters like this, but I always encourage everyone on here to talk to these places yourself, don't just rely on other people to do it for you.

    It's especially helpful if you just ate there, or if you're a regular or know someone that works there. That instant face to face can be more beneficial than the business receiving some random email or phone call from me.

    We are all on here because we are all supporters of our Second Amendment rights and believe in standing up for our rights. We all have a duty to speak up for those rights, don't rely on someone else, or hope someone else is going to come along and do it for you.
    On the other side of that coin, we also should all have a duty to stand next to and support each other. Anytime someone does not speak, we should support them, give them encouragement and the courage to speak up, and pick up the ball where they left off.

    That being said, I called The Melting Pot just a few minutes ago, they are a franchise and the owner was not there. I was given an email address to the GM and I will be contacting her shortly.
    Last edited by Archerman99; 02-05-2013 at 01:59 PM.

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    I didn't say anything because it was my wife's birthday and as such I didn't feel it was right to talk to them right then. I also realized that the "No Guns, No Money" cards I had just bought I had forgot to put into my wallet. The point of the thread was to 1) let other people know, 2) to find out if anyone already had contact with them, and 3) if people had already contacted them if they knew what the policy was. No point in me barking up the tree if they have a policy like 7-11 and aren't going to change it.

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    My primary question for the establishment's management would be ..."Do you not realize that your sign serves as an announcement to criminals as well as your customers that your business is an optimum target for an armed robbery ?"

    Whether or not their customers unanimously comply with the policy or not, they are announcing to the world that everyone inside is unarmed, and are turning away a substantial number of potential customers who simply take exception to the posting of such a policy.

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    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Melting Pot No Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    I didn't say anything because it was my wife's birthday and as such I didn't feel it was right to talk to them right then. I also realized that the "No Guns, No Money" cards I had just bought I had forgot to put into my wallet. The point of the thread was to 1) let other people know, 2) to find out if anyone already had contact with them, and 3) if people had already contacted them if they knew what the policy was. No point in me barking up the tree if they have a policy like 7-11 and aren't going to change it.
    Aknazer, I understand the position you were in and was not criticizing you for that at all. I was just trying to say that I encourage everyone to speak up whenever and however they can.

    That being said, I got an email address to their GM and have contacted her. I am waiting for a reply back and will keep this thread informed. Hopefully we can get something changed.
    My wife and I like Melting Pot and she would hate it if we couldn't go back.

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    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Finally got a reply back from the owner of the Melting Pot today

    Mr. Merrick,

    Thanks for your note. I’m sorry that it has taken a few weeks to get back with you. Valentine’s is a busy time for us.

    I had not even thought about the possibility of a “no open carry” sign. I think that is a perfect alternative. Truly, I did not even think that the “no firearms” sign was necessary, but my staff was so uneasy that I allowed it. The media hype around November did not help.

    I hope that your member will consider returning to The Melting Pot again.

    Becky Chapman, owner


    I will be following up with her first thing in the morning to verify that the signs are either getting changed or coming down all together.

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    Regular Member Archerman99's Avatar
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    Melting Pot No Guns

    Followed up with Becky today, she said they will be changing their signs to No Open Carry. It's a start, here is her reply.

    Hi Justin,

    We will change them to “No Open Carry.” One week after the bill passed in November, we had a customer lay a gun on the table while drinking beer. It really upset my staff. So, I think to keep them at ease, we will not remove the signs, but I will be happy to change them to “No Open Carry.”

    Perhaps you can let me know…. If you are carrying a gun, are you allowed to consume alcohol?

    Becky Chapman, owner

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    Regular Member Freiheit417's Avatar
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    Why not a sign like this instead?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	guns are welcome.gif 
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    This seems to address the issue that caused the staff to be upset.
    America, where freedom* reigns.

    *Freedom subject to change depending on jurisdiction and availability. Some freedoms may not be available due to local political expedience or prevailing political correctness. Please check Federal, State, County, City, or any other special district for applicable laws governing the extents of freedoms prior to purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archerman99 View Post
    Followed up with Becky today, she said they will be changing their signs to No Open Carry. It's a start, here is her reply.

    Hi Justin,

    We will change them to “No Open Carry.” One week after the bill passed in November, we had a customer lay a gun on the table while drinking beer. It really upset my staff. So, I think to keep them at ease, we will not remove the signs, but I will be happy to change them to “No Open Carry.”

    Perhaps you can let me know…. If you are carrying a gun, are you allowed to consume alcohol?

    Becky Chapman, owner
    Wow, I can see why they had the reaction they did. A customer had a firearm in their had that they laid on the table....even without drinking a beer, that would freak a lot of people out.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Melting Pot No Guns

    Maybe a bit of definition about what constitutes "open carry", and be sure she understands that having a gun in your hand or sitting on the bar is NOT open carry. It is probably "unlawful display" or brandishing in most places. I would take it as a threat if I was a business operator, waiter, or patron.

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    I'd suggest going to Ms Chapman with a copy of the SDA and show her the following...


    TITLE 21 § 1272.1 CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act may carry the concealed or unconcealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business.

    Provided further, nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any peace officer in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages, except in the authorized line of duty as an undercover officer.

    Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any private investigator with a firearms authorization in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages in any establishment where low-point beer or alcoholic beverages are consumed.

    B. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1272.2 of this title.

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    Melting Pot No Guns

    That is exactly what I sent her. I did tell her that to answer her question directly, it does not say anything about consuming alcohol, just being under the influence of. It's a grey area that is going to take case law to clear up. One amount will influence someone completely different than it will some one else, and what is abnormal behavior for one maybe fairly normal for another.

    None the less, that is exactly what I sent her and offered to answer any other questions she may have

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    The following covers being under the influence...


    TITLE 21 § 1289.9 CARRYING WEAPONS UNDER INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols in any circumstances while under the influence of beer, intoxicating liquors or any hallucinogenic, or any unlawful or unprescribed drug, and it shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols when under the influence of any drug prescribed by a licensed physician if the after effects of such consumption affect mental, emotional or physical processes to a degree that would result in abnormal behavior. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title.

    Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section after having been issued a handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall have the license suspended for a term of six (6) months and shall be subject to an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars ($50.00), upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.


    Any consumption is likely going to put one under "influence of alcohol" in this day and age with all the nannyism we live under and prosecutors seeking to advance their careers.

    Anyways, concealed is concealed. If that's all the business allows, it's better than no carry.
    Last edited by Keylock; 02-23-2013 at 11:31 PM.

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keylock View Post
    I'd suggest going to Ms Chapman with a copy of the SDA and show her the following...


    TITLE 21 § 1272.1 CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act may carry the concealed or unconcealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business.

    Provided further, nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any peace officer in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages, except in the authorized line of duty as an undercover officer.

    Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any private investigator with a firearms authorization in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages in any establishment where low-point beer or alcoholic beverages are consumed.

    B. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1272.2 of this title.
    This statute has nothing to do with carry at the Melting Pot, since it's not a bar. This only serves to confuse the issue.

    Clearly, lying a gun on the table in a public establishment is not gonna fly. Someone who does that needs to have the cops called on them. I keep hearing these stories, but no arrests. Makes me seriously question the validity of such stories.

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    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    Really, a bad guy won't take his gun and simply place it on the table top and not rob or commit another crime while there. Id also hate to think there would be a licensed weapons carrier that would do such an inexcusable move as that. Which leave only two more possibility. 1 never happened, and is just a way for an employee to stir the pot. 2 it was a child with a cap gun. Or something along those lines. If I was present to see such a bold move the cops would have been called. Then again if they are posted Id be eating my meal else where.

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiebryan View Post
    This statute has nothing to do with carry at the Melting Pot, since it's not a bar. This only serves to confuse the issue.

    Clearly, lying a gun on the table in a public establishment is not gonna fly. Someone who does that needs to have the cops called on them. I keep hearing these stories, but no arrests. Makes me seriously question the validity of such stories.
    Was replying to Archerman99's post above where Ms. Chapman stated a customer layed his arm on the table while drinking a beer. As far as I know the statute prohibits carrying while under the influence of alcohol. So posting the statue to relay to Ms. Chapman is relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archerman99 View Post
    Followed up with Becky today, she said they will be changing their signs to No Open Carry. It's a start, here is her reply.

    Hi Justin,

    We will change them to “No Open Carry.” One week after the bill passed in November, we had a customer lay a gun on the table while drinking beer. It really upset my staff. So, I think to keep them at ease, we will not remove the signs, but I will be happy to change them to “No Open Carry.”

    Perhaps you can let me know…. If you are carrying a gun, are you allowed to consume alcohol?

    Becky Chapman, owner

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    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    You can go out to say, hideaway, order some fried mushrooms and have a beer with it while carrying. Nothing about that is illegal. It states that Being intoxicated while carrying is illegal. Now you need to know how much beer does it take to intoxicate me verses you or him. That's the grey area, but legally, your server is not allowed to serve you alcohol to the point of intoxication.
    I do know while carrying open, ill stick to tea or a soft drink. I don't think it would be a good image drinking a beer with a gun on my hip, but that's just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary S View Post
    You can go out to say, hideaway, order some fried mushrooms and have a beer with it while carrying. Nothing about that is illegal. It states that Being intoxicated while carrying is illegal. Now you need to know how much beer does it take to intoxicate me verses you or him. That's the grey area, but legally, your server is not allowed to serve you alcohol to the point of intoxication.
    I do know while carrying open, ill stick to tea or a soft drink. I don't think it would be a good image drinking a beer with a gun on my hip, but that's just me.
    Not necessarily. The statute actually says it is illegal to carry while under the influence of several things...it does not say while intoxicated.

    There is no precise definition in this statute of what constitutes "under the influence". An overzealous person would argue that you are under the influence with the first drink....someone more laid back would argue it was after the second or third glass.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Not necessarily. The statute actually says it is illegal to carry while under the influence of several things...it does not say while intoxicated.

    There is no precise definition in this statute of what constitutes "under the influence". An overzealous person would argue that you are under the influence with the first drink....someone more laid back would argue it was after the second or third glass.
    And this is why I won't even have one drink when OCing. The law doesn't define what "under the influence" is and I don't have the time or money to fight it in court should I be the person "lucky" enough to get that overzealous person.

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    And this is why I won't even have one drink when OCing. The law doesn't define what "under the influence" is and I don't have the time or money to fight it in court should I be the person "lucky" enough to get that overzealous person.
    Exactly. Better to stick with non-alcoholic beverages when carrying to avoid issues.

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    Regular Member Robert318's Avatar
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    Ok guys this topic has been discussed on other threads that you must have missed. So here some of the info, the law says under the influence not while intoxicated.

    TITLE 21 § 1289.9 CARRYING WEAPONS UNDER INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols in any circumstances while under the influence of beer, intoxicating liquors or any hallucinogenic, or any unlawful or unprescribed drug

    So whether you feel the effects after one drink or not, one drink will mean under the influence, whether you notice the affects or not it does affect you, maybe your tolerance is higher than most but it is still affecting you.

    Though I do agree that some can handle alcohol a lot better than others and don't like the fact that others weaknesses or lack of responsibility should punish those of us that can handle it, know when to say when, or can be responsible, the law can't discern that therefore is written to cover it broadly.

    I especially don't agree with the "in any circumstance"!! So the law honors property rights by letting owners restrict LAC from carrying on their property that is open to the public at large but then tells me that if I want to have a drink at my home or on my property that I have to disarm and put my guns up!! Remember it says "in any circumstance".

    Personally IMHO the fact that my right to bear arms is a God given unalienable right and the bill of rights says "shall not be infringed"(2a, and 5a nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law), means that any law that restricts or implies that I have to pay money, take some class, put my fingerprints in a data base, carry a permission slip or any thing else to affect my right to bear arms is a flagrant and abusive exercise of power from those in leadership positions and blatant disregard for individual liberties!

    If someone uses "any weapon" to harm others out of malice or disregard then they should be disciplined, that includes those trusted to act as leaders then use legislation(a weapon) to impose their will on others!! Don't think gun laws hurt people, what about those that are poor because of reasons beyond their control say a disability or lack of enough intellect to have a high paying job. Do they then not have a right to be armed at all times not just when at home, I don't think so!! How selfish and arrogant is that!! Yes guns aren't for everyone but laws that force people to be victims because they can't defend themselves is ridiculous!!
    Stay safe and God bless.

    Everyone will hate you because of me.
    But not a hair of your head will perish.
    Stand firm, and you will win life.
    (Luke 21:17-19 NIV)

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.",
    "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms."Thomas Jefferson

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    That still doesn't define what "under the influence" means. Just because it is in your system does not mean that you are under the influence of said item.

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    Regular Member Gary S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    That still doesn't define what "under the influence" means. Just because it is in your system does not mean that you are under the influence of said item.
    I would think that for one to be "under the influence" of alcohol you would have to fail a sobriety test or blow above the legal limit. You can drive a car after drinking a beer or two and as long as you pass the tests you are not considered "under the influence" and are free to leave. Although I wouldn't suggest it in either case.

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