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Thread: Open Carry - local library?

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    Open Carry - local library?

    Hi All,
    Joined recently and am trying to read as much as possible on open carry. I was hoping someone could help point me in the right direction. There is a local library here in Maine that I've heard is considering posting a "no firearms allowed" sign at the library. In my searches Ive also seen that the Portland public library has a similar rule stated in their policies. Trying to discern where the line is drawn legally between a public institution and private one. This library is not officially called a public library, but does receive approx 25% of funding from our town. Is it enforceable for them to post "no firearms" sign for open carry? Thanks in advance.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    They appear to be funded by public and private donations.

    Rules of Conduct say no guns allowed.
    http://www.portlandlibrary.com/about...uct3.24.11.pdf

    However, state preemptions states:
    2. Regulation restricted. Except as provided in subsection 3, no political subdivision of the State, including, but not limited to, municipalities, counties, townships and village corporations, may adopt any order, ordinance, rule or regulation concerning the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration, taxation or any other matter pertaining to firearms, components, ammunition or supplies.
    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...25sec2011.html

    Can anyone shed any light on how these seemingly opposed situations have been resolved.
    I remember a poster here several years back that indicated he carried in the library, but cannot find a link to that post.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Next time I need to go to the library here, I'll "test the waters" and let ya'll know.
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    Re: Open Carry - local library?

    Don't know about resolution. However, Portland is full of ordinances that contradict preemption. Being a "public" library you should be good to go. But, IANAL.

    MaineGlock i don't suggest testing the waters, unless you have some money to spend in a lawyer. Unless, you plan to be a test case if necessary.

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPOProds View Post
    Don't know about resolution. However, Portland is full of ordinances that contradict preemption. Being a "public" library you should be good to go. But, IANAL.

    MaineGlock i don't suggest testing the waters, unless you have some money to spend in a lawyer. Unless, you plan to be a test case if necessary.
    Why would I need a lawyer? They ask me to leave, I leave. I've been issued two summons in the last 5 months on behalf of Portland's illegal city ordnances. Both got me calls the next day from the PPD attorney saying the charges would be dropped immediately. If I had the money, I'd gladly sue the city to eliminate those stupid ordnances.
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
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    Re: Open Carry - local library?

    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    Why would I need a lawyer? They ask me to leave, I leave. I've been issued two summons in the last 5 months on behalf of Portland's illegal city ordnances. Both got me calls the next day from the PPD attorney saying the charges would be dropped immediately. If I had the money, I'd gladly sue the city to eliminate those stupid ordnances.
    As long as you're ready for a possible legal battle, i say go for it!

    I say a lawyer though because who knows what bs charge they pull out. You might not be asked to leave, police might just show up. Then hit you with a BoP charge or something similar. But, i digress, i had forgotten you've been around the block with PPD.

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    Thanks for the feedback. So, i'm still not clear myself on whether or not the State preemption clause would be applicable to our local library. To the non-lawyer, it would seem logical that a local library is not a "political subdivision" of the State - and consequently the preemption clause would not be relevant. My current thinking then is that the library would be able to incorporate a no firearms policy on its premises. Does anyone have any other info that would suggest otherwise? Thanks in advance.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wait a minute View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. So, i'm still not clear myself on whether or not the State preemption clause would be applicable to our local library. To the non-lawyer, it would seem logical that a local library is not a "political subdivision" of the State - and consequently the preemption clause would not be relevant. My current thinking then is that the library would be able to incorporate a no firearms policy on its premises. Does anyone have any other info that would suggest otherwise? Thanks in advance.
    Bangor Public Library, city bought it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_Public_Library

    Portland Public Library is listed under city departments and under city services.
    http://www.portlandmaine.gov/services.htm

    These cities are a political subdivision of the state and therefore the libraries owned by them are covered by preemption. That would be my conclusion until shown differently.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-11-2013 at 06:48 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Very interesting Grapeshot. I see your point with those libraries, and I would tend to agree that preemption *should apply*. Unfortunately, my local library is separate from the town though, so seems to me less likely that preemption applies. Anyways, i can always choose to drive to the next nearest town if my local library goes ahead with their plan to post a no firearms sign/policy, vote with my own feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wait a minute View Post
    Very interesting Grapeshot. I see your point with those libraries, and I would tend to agree that preemption *should apply*. Unfortunately, my local library is separate from the town though, so seems to me less likely that preemption applies. Anyways, i can always choose to drive to the next nearest town if my local library goes ahead with their plan to post a no firearms sign/policy, vote with my own feet.
    Not sure what you mean by "separate from the town."

    Neither "likely" nor "less likely" make any difference. Determining who owns the entity and what the law says is the only way to get answers.

    In the OP, you asked about Portland Public Library. If they post or have a no guns policiy, then someone needs to contact the library board and City Attorney about correcting this.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot, my intent with the OP was to try to get more information on how to determine if the state's preemption clause would apply to open carry in my local library (which is not portland btw) - sorry if that wasnt clear. This library is owned by a nonprofit org that is not affiliated with the town. That nonprofit owns the land and building. The town does provide some funding but likely less than 20% or so. With this info, i am concluding that the library is not a political subdivision of the town and therefore preemption doesnt apply. Basically, this library appears to be able to be considered like a private business and can post and enforce a no firearms policy. At least thats my conclusion with the info ive learned so far - i welcome any feedback. Thanks.

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