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House Bill 1703 introduced establishing a tax on firearms and ammunition purchases

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
A right cannot be taxed. The only reason the current tax is imposed is thanks to the "sportsman" groups to pay for hunting conservation efforts.

Congress/states do not have the constitutional power to collect the current tax much less this proposed tax.
 

911Grunt

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
46
Location
Pierce County, WA
Here is what I just sent...:dude:

This bill is the creation of taxing scheme for a civil right and a funding source for government to convince non-ownership of firearms (since the use of a firearm does cause physical injuries on the person being shot).

Doing some quick fact checking shows that of the figures shows that Suicide by firearms is actually 8.18% not the 49% mentioned in the bill.

The homicide rate doesn't state but an important fact needs to be asked… does that include self defense and law enforcement shootings?

The comment about abused women being at a higher risk of being killed again doesn't state if that figure includes information about the ex-spouse who may have used a firearm to commit the homicide?

So the more you did into their statements the more it looks like a backdoor scheme to tax law abiding citizens who exercise a civil right. Since criminals are going to steal what they want not buy it at a store.
 

Whitney

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
435
Location
Poulsbo, Kitsap County, Washington, USA
Tax Schemes and your Wallet / Bet you didn't know....... Benefit Theory Taxes

If the legislature really wants to fund these programs then they need to have the testicular fortitude to stand up to the Fed, end the abuse of the commerce clause, and tell them "no more soup for you" Some things this bill touts are already provided for in other programs, this is just another example of replacing something that works with something that sounds good.




Following is some research I have done regarding this same tax scheme at the federal level.

The unique Federal excise tax placed on ammunition, archery products, and firearms is taking significant revenue from the States in the form of a Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax (FAET).
This tax is collected as a “benefit theory tax” for the purpose of establishing a Wildlife Restoration Fund and according to the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act, authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to cooperate with the States, through their respective State fish and game departments, in wildlife-restoration projects. The State has to “opt in” to receive Federal monies.

§ 669b-1. Authorization of appropriation of accumulated unappropriated receipts
There is hereby authorized to be appropriated, out of the Federal aid to wildlife restoration fund established by this chapter, for the 1956 fiscal year and for each fiscal year thereafter, an amount equal to 20 per centum of the accumulated unappropriated receipts in such fund on August 12, 1955, until the accumulated unappropriated receipts in such fund on such date have been appropriated and expended. Funds appropriated under the authority of this section shall be made available to the States in accordance with the provisions of, and under the apportionment formula set forth in, this chapter, and shall be in addition to the funds appropriated under section 669b of this title.

§ 669f. Payment of funds to States
If a State has elected to avail itself of the benefits of this chapter by preparing a comprehensive fish and wildlife plan as provided for under option (1) of subsection (a) of section 669e of this title, and this plan has been approved by the Secretary of the Interior, then the Secretary may, in his discretion, and under such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, advance funds to the State for financing the United States pro rata share agreed upon between the State fish and game department and the Secretary.

The total number of handguns sold in Washington State in 2010 was 113,679 this does not reflect any other category, type, or class of firearm, nor does it include ammunition or other ancillary equipment such as bows and arrows subject to FAET. Handguns vary in price from $200.00 for a small caliber “plinker” to $1000.00 for the popular .45 caliber model 1911. Currently the Federal taxes imposed pistols and revolvers are at 10% of sales price while ammunition and other firearms are taxed at 11% of sale price. Using the nominal figure of $500.00., the Federal Government collected $5,683,950.00 from the sale of handguns in 2010. Washington State collected the appropriate sales tax.

Following data was provided by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife with regard to Wildlife Restoration funding based on the Pitman Robertson Wildlife Act. The spreadsheet actually shows some information for grants open during the period form 2007-2010.
In the case of grants funded under the Pittman-Robertson Act, Wildlife Restoration funding the state share is typically 25% and the Federal share is 75% of the total cost of each grant. The Federal share cannot be over 75% for Pitman Robertson grants.


Grant#Segment TitleStart DateEnding DateFederal ShareState SharePrivate ShareTotal CostFinal PaymentClosed Status Date
W-11-L-5Seed-Stock, Nesting Habitat Acquisition Project04/22/200206/30/2015$200,000.00$66,667.00$0.00$266.667.00NNull
W-2-L-3Oak Creek Wildlife Area01/23/200901/23/2011$0.00$0.00$0.00$0.00
W-2-L-4Oak Creek Wildlife Area04/28/200906/30/2011$272,815.00$90,938.00$0.00$363,752.00
W-41-D-57 Habitat Development 10/01/2007 06/30/2009 $798,053.00 $266,018.00 $0.00 $1,064,071.00 Y 13-Nov-2009
W-41-D-58 Habitat Development 07/01/2009 06/30/2010 $422,273.00 $140,759.00 $0.00 $563,032.00 Y 24-Jan-2011
W-41-D-59 Habitat Development 07/22/2010 06/30/2011 $422,273.00 $140,758.00 $0.00 $563,031.00 N NULL
W-42-L-57 Statewide Lease of Lands 07/01/2008 06/30/2009 $385,281.00 $128,427.00 $0.00 $513,708.00 Y 13-Nov-2009
W-42-L-58 Statewide Lease of Lands 07/01/2009 06/30/2010 $421,628.25 $140,542.75 $0.00 $562,171.00 Y 24-Jan-2011
W-42-L-59 Statewide Lease of Lands 07/15/2010 06/30/2011 $429,148.00 $143,049.00 $0.00 $572,197.00 N NULL
W-59-L-1 Weyerhauser Company Property Acquisition (Johns River Game Range) 06/17/2010 12/31/2010 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00 N NULL
W-83-HS-38 Hunter Education 07/01/2008 06/30/2009 $858,321.00 $286,107.00 $0.00 $1,144,428.00 Y 13-Nov-2009
W-83-HS-39 Hunter Education (Section 4 and 10) 07/01/2009 06/30/2010 $961,321.00 $0.00 $0.00 $961,321.00 Y 24-Jan-2011
W-83-HS-40 Hunter Education (Section 4 and 10) 07/01/2010 03/31/2012 $1,296,334.00 $19,500.00 $0.00 $1,315,834.00 N NULL
W-94-D-26 Wildlife Area Program 07/01/2008 06/30/2009 $1,372,258.00 $457,420.00 $0.00 $1,829,678.00 Y 13-Nov-2009
W-94-D-27 Wildlife Area Program 07/01/2009 06/30/2010 $1,372,258.00 $457,419.00 $0.00 $1,829,677.00 Y 24-Jan-2011
W-94-D-28 Wildlife Area Program 07/01/2010 06/30/2011 $1,812,716.00 $604,239.00 $0.00 $2,416,955.00 N NULL
W-96-R-17 Statewide Wildlife Management 07/01/2008 06/30/2010 $6,319,247.00 $2,106,416.00 $0.00 $8,425,663.00 Y 24-Jan-2011
W-96-R-18 Statewide Wildlife Management 07/01/2010 06/30/2011 $4,144,139.00 $1,381,380.00 $0.00 $5,525,519.00 N NULL
W-98-E-10 Hunter Education Shooting Range Program 07/01/2010 09/30/2011 $156,657.00 $52,219.00 $0.00 $208,876.00 N NULL
W-98-E-8 Hunter Education Shooting Range Program 07/01/2008 09/30/2009 $56,657.00 $18,886.00 $0.00 $75,543.00 Y 03-Feb-2010
W-98-E-9 Hunter Education Shooting Range Program 07/01/2009 06/30/2010 $56,657.00 $18,886.00 $0.00 $75,543.00 Y 24-Jan-2011
W-99-L-1 Wildlife Lands Conservation 09/02/2010 06/30/2012 $804,000.00 $268,000.00 $0.00 $1,072,000.00 N NULL
$22,562,036.25$6,787,630.75$0.00$29,349,667.00



Benefit Theory Taxes
Many present law excise taxes are imposed to distribute some or all of the cost of particular government expenditures among persons thought to benefit from them. About half of all excise tax receipts are benefit theory taxes. Proceeds from these taxes are typically dedicated to a trust fund so as to earmark the revenue for a particular purpose. Taxes supporting the Highway Trust Fund are the most familiar examples. Benefit theory excise taxes need to be distinguished from user fees.
User fees are imposed as part of a voluntary transaction between the government and a private person. Excise taxes arise from the exercise of a government’s sovereign power and are imposed on transactions between private persons, or on other taxable events to which private persons are a party. User fees are imposed on transactions between private persons and government entities, such as admission to a national park. The conceptual distinction is not always observed in practice. For example, the “fees” imposed beginning in FY 1991 on boat owners were not enacted as part of the Internal Revenue Code (the Code) and were treated as a user fee in the Budget even though no voluntary transaction occurred between boat owner and government agency. In another instance, the Code imposes an excise tax on the value of certain cargos to support the Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund.

In terms of legislative process, the distinction between an excise tax and a user fee is of major significance. Constitutionally, tax legislation must originate in the House of Representatives, which in practical terms means that it must originate in the Committee on Ways and Means. Characterizing a legislatively determined payment to the federal government as a user fee permits committees of the Congress other than the tax-writing committees to assert jurisdiction. If unchallenged by the Committee on Ways and Means, or if successful in securing a ruling from the House Parliamentarian that the measure is not a tax, other committees of the Congress may be successful in enacting a user fee provision that, analytically, is no different than an excise tax. [SUP]1[/SUP]


END NOTES


[SUP]1 [/SUP]TAX EXPENDITURES IN THE FEDERAL EXCISE TAX SYSTEM
[SUP]National Tax Journal Vol. 47, no. 1, (March, 1994), pp. 39-62[/SUP]


~Whitney
 

FrayedString

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
132
Location
East Wenatchee, Washington, USA
I got replies from 1 of my reps (Cary Condotta) and my senator (Linda Evans Parlette). Nothing from Brad Hawkins, my 2nd rep, yet.


Rep. Cary Condotta said:
Alan,



I will not support this bill in any shape or form. PERIOD.


Best Regards,

CARY CONDOTTA
12th District Representative

Visit My Website: www.houserepublicans.wa.gov/condotta
Sign up for my e-mail updates


Linda Evans Parlette said:
Alan,

Thank you for sharing your opposition to HB 1703, promoting firearm safety through an education program funded through fees on firearms and ammunition and creating a sales tax exemption on gun locks. This measure was introduced today in the House of Representatives and has been referred to the House Judiciary Committee. If the committee fails to take action on this measure before Friday, February 22nd, HB 1703 will be considered dead unless necessary to implement the budget.

I will continue to monitor this measure as it progresses through the process. I have added your opposition to HB 1703 to my constituent matrix, which I use when voting on bills that are before the full Senate. If you are interested in getting the latest news from our state capitol during legislative sessions, you can sign up to receive my weekly email update. To do this send an e-mail to Parlette.Linda@leg.wa.gov , and type your name, address, and phone number in the message. If, in the future, you wish to be taken off the distribution list - just send me an email saying this. If you have already received this message about signing up - please disregard.

Thank you for contacting me!

Sincerely,

LINDA EVANS PARLETTE
12th Legislative District
Washington State Senate Majority Coalition Caucus Chair
Phone: (360) 786-7622
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
"Ammunition" means cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in firearms.

So it's equal to 1 cent per round of ammunition. I wonder how they'll figure that out. Would you be charged $.0025 for the amount of powder used in a single pistol round or rifle round? What's the exact price per grain? Would one part of the round cost more than the rest? Should the bullet be more since it's what enters a person or the powder since it propels the bullet? I'd like to see their complete plans.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Given how many domestic terrorists have used chemistry to commit their evil deeds, I wonder if a $25 tax on books and a $0.01 tax on every use of the words bomb in online communications, the funds used to promote good citizenship and civics classes, would pass constitutional muster?

I suspect it would not. So how on Earth can a similar tax on another constitutional right be constitutional? What's next, having to pay a fee to not have to incriminate yourself, or a subscription being needed to be eligible for a trial by jury?
 
Last edited:

Crunchtyme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
11
Location
Port Orchard, WA
I wrote all the sponsors of this bill today, voicing my opposition to HB1073.

I noted this is a veiled attempt toward controlling firearm ownership. The Poll tax was set up to prevent a segment of the population from voting, now the bill sponsors are attempting to suppress another Right using a similar tactic.

Taxing a right is something they should ALL be opposed to. I asked if they would sponsor a bill taxing 1st amendment use to fund graffiti education? A per word tax to use the 1st amendment?
Would they sponsor a use tax of the 5th amendment? I Think not

I received a phone call from Representative Jan Angel's Office this afternoon as a response to my opposition of this bill.

"Not one Republican sponsor on this bill. I feel you are right in your take of this bill. There are so many crazy bills floating around here right now on guns, you May see a lot more of this type."
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
Given that this would be a new tax, is this covered by the 2/3 super-majority requirement?
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
"Ammunition" means cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in firearms.

So it's equal to 1 cent per round of ammunition. I wonder how they'll figure that out. Would you be charged $.0025 for the amount of powder used in a single pistol round or rifle round? What's the exact price per grain? Would one part of the round cost more than the rest? Should the bullet be more since it's what enters a person or the powder since it propels the bullet? I'd like to see their complete plans.

When I first read it this morning this is what pop'ed in my head.
 

TechnoWeenie

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Jul 17, 2007
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Why are so many politicians insisting on not making it through the next election?

Are they that happy to give up their seat, after being voted out for introducing such BS?
 

amlevin

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Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
"Ammunition" means cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for use in firearms.

So it's equal to 1 cent per round of ammunition. I wonder how they'll figure that out. Would you be charged $.0025 for the amount of powder used in a single pistol round or rifle round? What's the exact price per grain? Would one part of the round cost more than the rest? Should the bullet be more since it's what enters a person or the powder since it propels the bullet? I'd like to see their complete plans.

For many of us it just means we'll take a "vacation trip" to a nearby State where ammunition and components for reloaders aren't taxed as much.

Based on the latest firearm sales, most everyone will be pretty well stocked up by the time the tax takes effect. No way they'll collect the kind of bucks the cash hungry Legislators think.
 

FrayedString

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
132
Location
East Wenatchee, Washington, USA
Why are so many politicians insisting on not making it through the next election?

Are they that happy to give up their seat, after being voted out for introducing such BS?


The problem is, it seems like for the most part we (not us necessarily, but our fellow citizens) keep voting the same jokers back into office who got us into so many of the messes we find ourselves in today. By the time the next election comes around, most people will have forgotten all about this current batch of horrible bills and will only be thinking about what has happened in the last month or so prior. I swear, most voters have no long-term memory at all. The price of gas goes down a couple weeks before the election and they all become euphoric and can't possibly imagine changing who is in office.
 
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