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Thread: A note on gun control and police

  1. #1
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    A note on gun control and police

    I just wanted to put it out there that the media is perpetuating what I believe is a myth regarding the general police position/opinion on gun control.

    For those here who don't know, I'm a cop in a high crime city in CT, and I deal with gun violence on a pretty regular basis. I for one do not support any further gun legislation, and while I can't speak for all officers, I can tell you that most cops that I have spoken with on this issue stand against new legislation just as much as the members here do. Meanwhile, Obama addresses gun control against a backdrop of police officers giving the impression that we are all anti-gun, and that could not be further from the truth. While I'm sure that there are some officers who are liberal minded and anti-gun, I'm convinced that is nowhere near the majority opinion.

    There are several police chief associations who are speaking out in favor of gun control and passing it off as majority opinion. The thing is, police chiefs are nothing less than politicians themselves and do not represent the "rank and file" opinion. You'll notice that in the media, there are many sheriffs who have come out in opposition to gun control, but they are a different breed than the mayor-appointed chiefs.

    The following are a few articles I found from various police publications opposing gun control. I believe this is the majority opinion among police.

    http://www.officer.com/blog/10858047...ks-gun-control

    http://www.policemag.com/channel/wea...your-eyes.aspx

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...ert-verbruggen

    And for those who have asked a cop they just came across whether or not they would follow an order to go door-to-door and confiscate guns, I would not expect that they would give you an honest answer. I know I wouldn't tell a total stranger that I would disobey a direct order from the command staff, even if that's exactly what I would do.

    So to summarize, don't beat up on the cops too much, because most of us are on your side on this issue.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Appreciate your thoughts very much luckyykid. That has been my experience in my neck of the woods too when I get a chance to know an officer well enough to have a private conversation with him. Yes there are some more liberal/anti officers - we hear more about them through their more egregious/high profile interactions with people than we do of the good ones.

    You are spot on with the distinction between sheriffs and police chiefs.
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    Gee wiz, send him some flowers grapeshot...its a lovefest

    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: He said no such thing/LEO Bashing.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 02-08-2013 at 09:38 AM.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    the guy just said he is going to be breaking down doors to steal guns
    where did you see that? he stated the exact opposite

    luckyykid, thank you for posting this, and the articles. government officials will hopefully be reading this as well
    Last edited by motoxmann; 02-07-2013 at 10:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    where did you see that? he stated the exact opposite

    luckyykid, thank you for posting this, and the articles. government officials will hopefully be reading this as well
    Sorry, that's not how I interpreted the OP's statement...you are free to disagree

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Gee wiz, send him some flowers grapeshot...its a lovefest

    they guy just said he is going to be breaking down doors to steal guns
    Read it again w/o "interpertation" - just the plain English version. Show us facts, show us where he said that.

    I don't hesitate on saying that you border on being insulting. I in no way support anti positions from other people.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-07-2013 at 01:47 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Read it again w/o "interpertation" - just the plain English version. Show us facts, show us where he said that.

    I don't hesitate on saying that you border on being insulting. I in no way support anti positions from other people.
    Where does he say he would not follow an order to confiscate guns?

    He doesn't.

    He broached the subject ... and gave a non-answer to his own query.

    Once can say he says he wouldn't and one can say that he said he would ..

    Now given that he broached the subject ... I would assume that if he would indeed not confiscate, he would affirmatively stated this in clear and plain language -which he did not.

    Hence my conclusion ... its logical and based on HIS words, not mine. See the words EVEN-IF .. where the subject matter is gun confiscation. Its not "EVEN WHEN" but "EVEN IF".,,IF the operable term

    Think I am too picky? The OP is free to clarify and I may amend my response.

    I called it like I saw it.

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    Good Lord Almighty I don't even know what to say. While being somewhat cryptic, I believe i made it pretty clear where I stand, and where most other cops stand.

    I CAN'T flat out state anything, because when you become a cop you LOSE your freedom of speech. So I play it safe.

    Everyone else except davidmcbeth seemed to be able to figure it out...

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    A note on gun control and police

    We thank you Lucky.
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    Lucky some people are just wound a bit too tight...
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    I have met lucky face to face and I have spoken to him. He is a stand up officer, and I probably should have the least positive view of police officers on this forum.

    I don't for a second think that any gun owner will see lucky kicking down their door to confiscate or to hassle them for OC.

    He also delivered a very positive pro-gun speech in a room full of antis. That shows his commitment. I cannot blame him for not using his real name or real views here. Not all PDs are 'ok' with liberty oriented views.
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyykid View Post

    I CAN'T flat out state anything, because when you become a cop you LOSE your freedom of speech. So I play it safe.

    Everyone else except davidmcbeth seemed to be able to figure it out...
    You DO NOT lose your freedom of speech .. ??? that's really goofy to say.

    You are an EMPLOYEE, a civilian EMPLOYEE. If you refuse to do what your boss says to, you have no more punishment that any other employee...you can get fired. That's it! You don't go to prison, like a guy in the army who refuses a lawful order.

    You say you "play it safe" and that's what I have said through-out multiple threads .. cops will "play it safe" and follow the directions given to them from their bosses. Why? Pensions...that's why.

    If you cannot flat out say "I will not participate in gun grabs of (now) lawful owners" then you should have never brought up the subject.

    Wound up? No, not really...I'll calling you on it. Until the cons are more than the pros, cops will usually do what their bosses tell them to do..even if they know it is wrong. The law protects them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I have met lucky face to face and I have spoken to him. He is a stand up officer,
    I am not saying he is not a stand up policeman ... but he likely will be breaking doors down if he is told to to confiscate your guns ..

    Most policeman are decent hard working guys ... I have seen some lie on the stand (I had a trooper do this a few days ago in a case I was a party) and some actually tell the truth when knowing it will kill the case .. I come from a family of cops and firemen ... I know what they do day in and day out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    where did you see that? he stated the exact opposite

    luckyykid, thank you for posting this, and the articles. government officials will hopefully be reading this as well
    I too, read it the same way as Motoxmann. Thanks for the input Luckyykid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walkingwolf View Post
    lucky some people are just wound a bit too tight...
    ..........or not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post

    I don't for a second think that any gun owner will see lucky kicking down their door to confiscate or to hassle them for OC....He also delivered a very positive pro-gun speech in a room full of antis.
    So you think he is willing to lose his job and PENSION? HA! That's what people said before Katrina .. as folks have been talking about this subject matter on and off for years...

    Did he file testimony before the task force? No. Why? 'cause he thinks he has lost his freedom of speech ..

    Interesting how he is so free to "give up" his constitutional rights .. think how easy it would be for him to give up yours.

    There is never any "thinking" with me .. my constitutional rights are not subject to debate

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    So you think he is willing to lose his job and PENSION? HA! That's what people said before Katrina .. as folks have been talking about this subject matter on and off for years...

    Did he file testimony before the task force? No. Why? 'cause he thinks he has lost his freedom of speech ..

    Interesting how he is so free to "give up" his constitutional rights .. think how easy it would be for him to give up yours.

    There is never any "thinking" with me .. my constitutional rights are not subject to debate
    You do know that some NG refused to confiscate guns? Not sure about the police, but I would imagine that some bucked the system. Hell some of them were looting instead of confiscating guns. Police are like the rest of the population, they are different people with different mindsets. Some are liberal, some are conservative, and I would imagine there are a few libertarians among them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You do know that some NG refused to confiscate guns? .
    Yes I know that ... one group ... and from a NG group ... wow, they are super heroes ...

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    So you think he is willing to lose his job and PENSION? HA! That's what people said before Katrina .. as folks have been talking about this subject matter on and off for years...

    Did he file testimony before the task force? No. Why? 'cause he thinks he has lost his freedom of speech ..

    Interesting how he is so free to "give up" his constitutional rights .. think how easy it would be for him to give up yours.

    There is never any "thinking" with me .. my constitutional rights are not subject to debate
    some people actually value the lives of innocent civilians higher than their personal job and/or pension. not everyone in our country is willing to do absolutely anything for a greenback or two..
    if someone offered me a mild-pay-rate job and a government pension to potentially kill civilians over illegal attempts at stealing their rightful property, I know exactly what I would do, and none of it would involve accepting the pay/job/pension or risking the lives of otherwise law-abiding civilians.
    not to mention anyone carrying out such orders would be highly risking their own life.
    I don't think there's a large enough group of cops dumb enough to risk their own lives, their fellow officers' lives, the civilians' lives, their job, and their pension, to carry out such orders. though I may be wrong, maybe there are enough cops dumb enough to do this. But I can guarantee not ALL cops are this dumb/ignorant

    I'm proud to have luckyykid employed as a LEO in our state. our country needs more LEO's like him.
    Last edited by motoxmann; 02-08-2013 at 02:28 PM.

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    How many cops in the big easy area refused to participate in the door break downs? And this is a big pro-2nd amendment state..


    I guess we'll find out ...

    I'm moving on ...

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    ummm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    I have met lucky face to face and I have spoken to him. He is a stand up officer, and I probably should have the least positive view of police officers on this forum.
    Rich; the LEAST positive view?? Really?? :P
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    Thank you for your sensible attitude, luckyykid.
    It's reassuring to hear that the dog & pony show put on for the press by the top brass is usually only their opinion, not that of the people doing the work.

    In my city*, though, there are plenty of boots-on-the-street officers who act like they agree with the chief...
    He (in)famously said in a newspaper interview:
    "My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it."


    * Milwaukee, WI [MKE]

    Though at 2am when officers finally showed up in response to my burglary call a couple summers ago (my house & the one next door), the guy who came to work with me looked at my hip, said "is that a pistol?", and when I answered 'yes', said "oh. Just checking" & we went on with the paperwork.
    I expected at least a little good-natured ribbing back & forth about brand & caliber.

    And our Sheriff is generally much more reasonable. He even spoke at the statehouse in favor of our concealed carry law, when it was in the public comment stage. That caused some gaping jaws among the assembled citizens.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 02-09-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B
    I probably should have the least positive view of police officers on this forum.
    We should get a thread going in the social lounge to compare horror stories among the various people who have had bad experiences.
    Problem is, it'd probably degenerate into bashing & be either locked or removed.

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    Well said, luckyykid, and my experiences with police tells me the same. Vast majority of rank and file cops stand behind citizen rights; chiefs are sometimes (but not always) bureaucrats, political appointees and hacks who'll sell us out and stand behind Obama. Even among those who ever WERE real cops, a portion forgot where they came from. Sheriffs on the other hand, are elected and accountable to the people. But the mix is true among all professions, whether shoe cobbler, cop, candlestick maker or taxi driver. Most are good, honest, ethical and principled. The few bad apples give the rest a bad name.
    Last edited by Riverdance; 02-08-2013 at 10:26 PM.

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDoutel View Post
    Rich; the LEAST positive view?? Really?? :P
    Hmm. Good point. I forgot you were on this forum.
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