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Thread: OT: Virginia Senate to Research Printing Own Money?

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    OT: Virginia Senate to Research Printing Own Money?

    Sorry this is off topic, and I can't even say that I read it while OCing, because I am at school.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...est=latestnews

    Fair Use Quote:

    A proposal to study whether the state should adopt its own currency is gaining traction in the state legislature from a number of lawmakers as well as conservative economists. The state House voted 65-32 earlier this week to approve the measure, and it will now go to the Senate.

    Virginia Republican Del. Robert Marshall told FoxNews.com Tuesday that his bill calls for creation of a 10-member commission that would determine the “need, means and schedule for establishing a metallic-based monetary unit.” Essentially, he wants to spend $20,000 on a study that could call for the state to return to a gold standard.

    Please Discuss. I would have put this in general discussion, but it is VA specific.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It only makes sense. We already have the equipment!


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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It only makes sense. We already have the equipment!

    How would that really work though? I can see going to 7-11 and paying for my gas in VAD, but what about my paycheck, will it come in USD or VAD? Will I lose purchasing power when I have to exchange currency?
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I don't have a clue but since it ain't gonna happen unless we tie a can to Obama's tail...which ain't gonna happen, I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about it.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    How would that really work though? I can see going to 7-11 and paying for my gas in VAD, but what about my paycheck, will it come in USD or VAD? Will I lose purchasing power when I have to exchange currency?
    Ownership of USD represents a continuous and rapid devaluation of purchasing power.

    The only way to have purchasing power in USD is to constantly acquire more, and in ever increasing quantities, or to be extremely wealthy.

    I don't see how it could get much worse than that.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    ....

    Virginia Republican Del. Robert Marshall told FoxNews.com Tuesday that his bill calls for creation of a 10-member commission that would determine the “need, means and schedule for establishing a metallic-based monetary unit.” Essentially, he wants to spend $20,000 ....
    Del. Marshall has a (political?) debt that can only be paid off with money*.

    Del. Marshall gets off (and you know how I mean) on spending tax dollars.

    Del. Marshall sees the secessionist movement as being stronger than the rest of the pundits have pegged it.

    Del. Marshall has failed to study history and wants to resurrect the reason for a national currency as opposed to a separate currency in each of the 57 States.

    Pick any one or more of the above.

    ETA: I was OCing while I wrote this.

    stay safe.

    * $2,000 each for 10 commission members works out to about 6 nights out on the town after meeting at 4 PM to vote on where to go for dinner.
    Last edited by skidmark; 02-07-2013 at 04:41 PM. Reason: to keep it OC-centric
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    States cannot print their own money, nor can anyone else ... its the law

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    States cannot print their own money, nor can anyone else ... its the law
    Well, uh, maybe the Commonwealth can start printing guns.

    Whether that would pass as legal (tinder) remains to be seen.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    States cannot print their own money, nor can anyone else ... its the law
    ???

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    If it only amounted to a competing fiat then it would be little else but an opportunity for the state to print/counterfeit their money to pay for debt much like the Federal government does to pay for its own.

    If this were not backed by some resource of value then it would amount to little else than a grab of the monopoly money pie by the state.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    --snip--

    Please Discuss. I would have put this in general discussion, but it is VA specific.
    The General Discussion sub-forum is for RKBA items that are not OC specific.

    Things that are state specific regarding gun laws, elections effecting our rights are among the posts acceptable.

    Just because it occurs in Virginia, doesn't make it qualified for inclusion on OCDO.

    We do not allow reports of dog shows, canal races, or the printing of money here - sorry, moving this to the Social Lounge.

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    Is their currency going to be backed by gold or coal? I don't think they have sufficient gold deposits. What are residents going to use for money out of state? What will the exchange rate be for U.S. currency? Too many problems.
    Last edited by beebobby; 02-08-2013 at 11:18 AM.

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    OT: Virginia Senate to Research Printing Own Money?

    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    ???
    Not saying he is wrong. But, as usual, he states what he claims is the law without, as required by the forum rules, citing to authority.


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    Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says that "The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin," and Section 10 says that "No State shall...coin Money". It is illegal for private citizens to coin money

    I guess some folks could claim that since it only mentions coin, that it wouldn't apply to printed money, but that would be a stretch.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says that "The Congress shall have Power...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin," and Section 10 says that "No State shall...coin Money". It is illegal for private citizens to coin money

    I guess some folks could claim that since it only mentions coin, that it wouldn't apply to printed money, but that would be a stretch.
    I did not see the work print anywhere in there. How do you coin paper anyways?

    It is not illegal for citizens to coin a private money. If you're willing to except it then you're willing to except it.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 02-08-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I did not see the work print anywhere in there. How do you coin paper anyways?

    It is not illegal for citizens to coin a private money. If you're willing to except it then you're willing to except it.
    You can create tokens that have a commonly accepted "value" within the marketplace. Many folks across the country tried it and some are still doing it. Works great on a very local basis. Extending the "zone of agreement" across one neighborhood is easy, but across even a small city is very difficult.

    But it's not money, because under the current Constitution only the government (in this case the federal government) can tell all the States what to do. The other option being each State "coins" [go look it up - it does not mean just producing metal tokens] its own money and the rates of exchange vary daily (if not more frequently). Seriously, how many "dollars" from California would it take for you to exchange one widget? Would you even accept California "dollars"? Is the discount a Colorado seller gives for Texas "dollars" the same as the discount a Virginia seller gives for Texas "dollars"?

    In case anybody was out of class that day, the above paragraph pretty much describes commerce and money under the Articles of Confederation and why those that most disliked the notion of a federal government still saw that as the only viable resolution of the interstate commerce situation. But then, most commerce was being conducted in Spanish silver or French gold as nobody really trusted even the federal dollar.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same. Now where have I heard that before?

    stay safe.
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    The federal constitution forbids the states printing money. Article I, Section 10:

    No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

    A paper currency note is a bill of credit.

    However, citizens at one time could coin money. Its not unconstitutional. It may be currently statutorily forbidden--I don't know--but its not unconstitutional.

    In the period circa 1830s-1840s, there was a private mint in the Carolinas. It sprang up in response to market need/demand. At that time, gold being mined in the Carolinas had to be shipped to the mint at (West Point? Philadelphia?), which was a pretty long haul for wagons. So, a private citizen set up a mint. He earned an excellent reputation for his coins always being of correct weight and purity. His dies are in two museums on the east coast.

    There were similar private mints on the west coast around the time of the gold strike at Sutters Mill. A few of those minters were less than honest about weight and purity.

    My source for this historical info is the minority report of the congressional gold commission set up by (Ronald Reagan?). The report is an excellent history of gold and money in this country. Google "minority report gold commission."

    Back to the General Assembly. It will be a short research project--I hope. Otherwise, our legislators are going to embarrass themselves. Unless....hmmmm...unless they plan on redefining words, ignore or twist the federal constitution, etc. Hmmm. Maybe they're just planting the seed for such this year.


    Just plugging my standing recommendation: There's no point in having guns if you don't know how you're being screwed. Its one thing to know this or that fedgov regulation is unconstitutional. But, money affects every single person in the nation. You, gentle reader, really need to find out how money is created, how it is distributed, how its value is monkeyed with, how its total volume in the system is controlled to our disadvantage. Also, this stuff is directly tied to why the fedgov debt is headed for Jupiter.
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-10-2013 at 10:59 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Not saying he is wrong. But, as usual, he states what he claims is the law without, as required by the forum rules, citing to authority.


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    I would not think that one needs to quote the constitution ... maybe you should read it ...

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    The federal constitution forbids the states printing money. Article I, Section 10:

    No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

    A paper currency note is a bill of credit.

    However, citizens at one time could coin money. Its not unconstitutional. It may be currently statutorily forbidden--I don't know--but its not unconstitutional. SNIP
    The federal constitution does not allow congress to print money either.

    The words, "and to print" were struck from the constitution forever barring the use of paper currency (by the government).
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would not think that one needs to quote the constitution ... maybe you should read it ...
    The forum rule doesn't make an exception for citing the federal constitution.

    I've read it. A number of times. And, I often still have to go back and read the relevant section word-for-word to make sure what I post is correct, or to check the other fellas accuracy.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    If it only amounted to a competing fiat then it would be little else but an opportunity for the state to print/counterfeit their money to pay for debt much like the Federal government does to pay for its own.

    If this were not backed by some resource of value then it would amount to little else than a grab of the monopoly money pie by the state.
    Very good point. Potentially just one set of crooks trying to muscle in on the turf of another gang.
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-10-2013 at 10:57 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    OT: Virginia Senate to Research Printing Own Money?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would not think that one needs to quote the constitution ... maybe you should read it ...
    A nice, and not unpredictable, dodge. I made my point. You just augmented it. So, I need do no more. Moving on.


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