More Anti-Gun Legislation

KYGlockster said:

*snip* Kentucky needs to stand up and say enough is enough, not try and skirt our way around legislation that we shouldn't have to skirt around in the first place in a Constitutional Republic.

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MrOverlay said:

Not trying to be argumentative but stand up how specifically?

What steps have to be taken?

If you are speaking of a 10th amendment approach, I don't feel confident. We have already seen a judge say it was OK to violate Charlie's rights because it was only for a short period of time. While I would be very happy for an expansion of states rights, and telling the feds they are not welcome, I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

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Tmhrr said:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/13RS/SB92.htm

The Legislative Web site is repoting this bill withdrawn

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self preservation said:

It sure enough has been. Can anyone shed some light as to why? I would assume because of the phone call(s) to the sponsors pointing out that this bill was good but had several flaws they needed to be addressed. Just my guess.

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KYGlockster said:

I'd be willing to bet Gutshot will be able to shed some light on the subject, but I would assume it has to do with how they had this bill arranged and worded. I am ALL for what this bill is ATTEMPTING to accomplish, but I could not support it with the several different clauses it had that I deem a further infringement on our rights.

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Gutshot said in his last post that he would hear back from Paul Hornback today, he also said that Paul Hornback told him that he would either fix it or withdraw it, so I would take that bet, We will probally get an update from him by the end of the day

They need to introduce legislation that says quite simply that we will NOT allow Federal legislation to be enforced in this Commonwealth that pertains to firearms. Why ban the possession of certain firearms at the state level if they are not registered? This is Kentucky, where we stand united. We do not need restrictions on what firearms we can have in our free state. We should be the first state that voids ALL Federal legislation, including the NFA and other unconstitutional legislation that pertains to firearms.

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I'm not sure how you would do this, If you declare ALL federal gun laws invalid and unenforcable, what about the law that requires dealers to have FFL, or the law that requires indivuals to obtain a background check thru the NICS system.

Current FFL's have distrubuters located in other states, this could cause problems for them to get inventory, If you opt out of the NICS, it could take days or even weeks for the state to complete the checks without the use of NICS


(these two issues, have been brought up by the anti, in other states when they tried this)

I know nobody has specificly said anything about doing away with these laws, however they fall under the definition of ALL federal laws

HB 267, SB123, and HB233 all deal with federal laws being enforcable within the comonwealth of Kentucky, I have not had a chance to read and study all of the yet.

I suport the concept of the legislation, I am just unsure and don't fully understand the application

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KYGlockster said:

I'd be willing to bet Gutshot will be able to shed some light on the subject, but I would assume it has to do with how they had this bill arranged and worded. I am ALL for what this bill is ATTEMPTING to accomplish, but I could not support it with the several different clauses it had that I deem a further infringement on our rights.

They need to introduce legislation that says quite simply that we will NOT allow Federal legislation to be enforced in this Commonwealth that pertains to firearms. Why ban the possession of certain firearms at the state level if they are not registered? This is Kentucky, where we stand united. We do not need restrictions on what firearms we can have in our free state. We should be the first state that voids ALL Federal legislation, including the NFA and other unconstitutional legislation that pertains to firearms.

We definately do not need another law that prohibits another class of individuals from possessing firearms.

Hopefully Gutshot can enlighten us on the exact reason behind the current withdrawal of this legislation.

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09jisaac said:

What the law would probably say is that anything manufactured in Kentucky, sold in Kentucky and have never left Kentucky and would never leave Kentucky would be free from federal regulations.

This would include everything from machine guns, suppressors, SBRs/SBSs, to cars and anything else.

This would not effect at all current S&W, Colt, Remington, HK, Sig, ect as those are all made outside of Kentucky and imported into Kentucky. Double Star products on the other hand could go both ways. If they are transported to Ohio to a distributer and then brought back into Kentucky then they would be regulated under Federal Law.

All FFLs would have to remain FFLs unless they want to deal exclusively in Kentucky firearms. There would be more than just Double Star.

Kentucky already uses the NICS for non federal purposes (CDWL), I don't see why they could not continue to if they decide to forgo interstate regulations for intrastate commerce.

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langzaiguy said:

Thanks for the heads up, Gutshot. I think you may be mistaken on HB 169---It seems to be about child support, not gun control.

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gutshot said:

I talked with Senator Hornback last night. SB 92 has been withdrawn and is not coming back. SB 129 has been introduced as a replacement. However, the house has some bills that are problems. HB 267 has exactly the same wording as SB 92 had. I asked Sen. Hornback if he had any contact with the sponsor of that bill to get it stopped, too. His answer was "no, but if it passes the House, which I doubt, it will not get a hearing in the Senate and we will pass SB 92 and the House leadership has agreed to also pass it". Everyone should take a look at HB 168 and contact you legislators and urge them to support it. At the same time tell them "NO" on HB 265, 267, 268 and SB 121.

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Tmhrr said:

Gutshot said in his last post that he would hear back from Paul Hornback today, he also said that Paul Hornback told him that he would either fix it or withdraw it, so I would take that bet, We will probally get an update from him by the end of the day





I'm not sure how you would do this, If you declare ALL federal gun laws invalid and unenforcable, what about the law that requires dealers to have FFL, or the law that requires indivuals to obtain a background check thru the NICS system.

Current FFL's have distrubuters located in other states, this could cause problems for them to get inventory, If you opt out of the NICS, it could take days or even weeks for the state to complete the checks without the use of NICS


(these two issues, have been brought up by the anti, in other states when they tried this)

I know nobody has specificly said anything about doing away with these laws, however they fall under the definition of ALL federal laws

HB 267, SB123, and HB233 all deal with federal laws being enforcable within the comonwealth of Kentucky, I have not had a chance to read and study all of the yet.

I suport the concept of the legislation, I am just unsure and don't fully understand the application

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Gun laws that apply to the people. Of course we would have to maintain certain restrictions on Federally licensed dealers, because they are FEDERALLY licensed, and without that license they would never be able to obtain firearms through interstate commerce.

Once the firearm is in the hands of the consumer though, we should not be bound by the unconstitutional legislation at the federal level.

We SHOULD exempt FFLs for firearms and accessories that were manufactured in Kentucky and that never left the State by way of interstate commerce. This, or establish Kentucky Firearm Retailers that sell nothing but Kentucky made firearms and accessories. These would not have to worry about losing their FFL for selling Kentucky made firearms, and they would only be bound by the laws of Kentucky.

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MrOverlay said:

While this and your previous posting sound well reasoned, I have always (well maybe not always) tried to anticipate what might go wrong and then what would I do.

Suppose Kentucky adopts your advice, and the feds tell them to pound sand (to use Charlies term).They say that they will do what they want, to whom they want, and you can't do a thing about it. What then?

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gutshot said:

I talked with Senator Hornback last night. SB 92 has been withdrawn and is not coming back. SB 129 has been introduced as a replacement. However, the house has some bills that are problems. HB 267 has exactly the same wording as SB 92 had. I asked Sen. Hornback if he had any contact with the sponsor of that bill to get it stopped, too. His answer was "no, but if it passes the House, which I doubt, it will not get a hearing in the Senate and we will pass SB 92 and the House leadership has agreed to also pass it". Everyone should take a look at HB 168 and contact you legislators and urge them to support it. At the same time tell them "NO" on HB 265, 267, 268 and SB 121.

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KYGlockster said:

Well then things get ugly. I too have pondered the actions of the Federal Government if we were to pass such legislation, but I value my freedom and liberty way too much to care at this point. What I really care about is the freedom and liberty my children will experience in their lifetime. If we continue to do nothing then my children will grow up in a country that controls their every action, and this is NOT something I care to envision any longer.

I would die to ensure that my children's future stays bright and happy, but at this point I just can't see that happening without some sort of intervention.

Are we willing to sacrifice our very foundation to maintain a little peace? I mean, are we willing to give up our liberties and freedoms to maintain a government that cares nothing about the People or their rights?

I know very well your concerns, because I often find myself examining the very same concerns in my own mind, but the cost of action is great, and without action we will surely lose everything that has already been fought for once. Well, I guess I could say it has been fought for several times. At this point, the millions of lives that have been lost to defend and establish our freedoms have been lost in vain if we do nothing.

We must do EVERYTHING we can in a peaceable manner before we attempt different routes, and introducing legislation at the State level to nullify federal legislation is about the last peaceful option we have left.

What do you believe to be our best option at this point? I would be willing to support my State at all costs if whatever they attempted was sound and attempted to nullify the Federal Government's unconstitutional power they have claimed.

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MrOverlay said:

You ask a fair question, and I honestly don't have a good answer. I think the feds default position is a Waco style approach.

I am afraid that we may be in a losing situation. The average person today has not even a basic knowledge of history and how and why our country was formed. We will never get any help from the main stream media as they will only call us nuts and make fun of us.

I believe our only hope is to educate enough people about what is really happening and the implications involved. However, when more people know about the Kardashians than they do the Constitution it is sure going to be an up hill battle. Top that off with people who really think the 2nd Amendment is about hunting and I am not hopeful.

Add to that situation firearms owners are often a fractured group. A lot of firearms enthusiast are only interested in one type of firearm and really don't care what happens to the other firearms as long as theirs is left alone. This is not a helpful situation. We have enough numbers of firearm owners, we just don't have enough who really care, IMO.

Just from my own experience, it gets very lonely when the blood starts flowing.

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