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Colleges, you'd think they would be smarter.

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I found this in a student code of conduct as authorized by the state.

(14) Illegal use or possession of weapons. The unauthorized use, possession, display, or storage of any weapons, fireworks or explosives on college premises or at any college-sponsored activity. The term weapon means any object or substance designed to inflict a wound, cause injury, or incapacitate. Weapons may include, but are not limited to, all firearms (whether lawfully or unlawfully possessed), pellet guns, slingshots, martial arts devices, switchblade knives and clubs. Legal defense sprays possessed or used for the purpose of self-defense are exempt from this section;

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=495D-121-160

I thought that all free citizens were authorized to carry/possess firearms.

Does this seem crystal clear to anyone here?
 
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Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
AFAIK OC and CC is probably legal on state college campuses given that the WACs that allow them to ban guns are superseded by RCWs and the state constitution, however, I'm not a lawyer and don't want to be a test case, nor would I encourage anyone else to be a test case.
 

hermannr

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Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
It seems to be a round about way of saying it's legal while making it look prohibited.

Think of it this way: The colleges (because they have not been challanged in court) can make rules of conduct for the students, and the staff, but not the public. OK? You cannot be trespassed off of areas of a college that are open to the general public for being armed. You can be put out of school, or become unemployed, if you have that type of a connection to the school and you violate their "rule", but that rule and code of conduct means absolutely nothing (at least in WA and OR) to John Q Citizen, no matter what the school thinks.

BTW: WSU has a prohibition for the students, but not the staff, South Sound CC has no prohibition at all. Most of the schools have a prohibition on the students and staff with the caviat that the dean of students may exempt someone. I believe even UW has that little jem.

However, In/on grounds and buildings that are open to the general public, their little prohibition has no stating, for the general public.
 

theaero

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
116
Location
Bellevue, WA
Simple solution for colleges:

CC. AFAIK, you can't be criminally charged. You can be suspended or expelled if you're a student, but the question is: Would you rather be armed just in case, or risk being expelled at the very rare chance someone found out you were carrying.

Unfortunately, in today's world, carrying is a gamble in some way, shape, or form. This is just another example.

I go to college. Do I carry? Who knows? :p

(I most likely don't, seeing as how I take karate at my college, and I don't have a holster that plays nicely with a gi)
 

OlGutshotWilly

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,
AFAIK OC and CC is probably legal on state college campuses given that the WACs that allow them to ban guns are superseded by RCWs and the state constitution, however, I'm not a lawyer and don't want to be a test case, nor would I encourage anyone else to be a test case.

This entire subject has been extensively discussed in previous threads complete with cites, WAC's, and RCW's. It is all there to read.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Well this topic is hurt and it to me as of late. On Tuesday the 5th, at Clover Park technical College in Lakewood, I went to inform the head of security of the fact that there are leftover signs from when a certain building now part of the college that used to be the Clover Park alternative school. These signs indicated that weapons were not allowed. I was open carrying at the time and the head of security notice this of course and told me that it was against school policy to open carry based on certain posted policy and procedures.

I informed him that this was contrary to state law which said that I was not required to conceal carry even though I did in fact have my concealed pistol license. I explained that the concealed pistol license in fact was only required when actually carrying concealed or when carrying loaded in a vehicle and that having a concealed pistol license did not require that I actually carry concealed.

He informed me that he was a former Tacoma Police Department officer. He also informed me after a few questions that in his personal opinion that he would in fact disarm every single student at Clover Park technical College if he had the ability to do so. He also informed me of his opinion that anybody with any mental illness should be prohibited from owning firearms period.

Based on my observation of your open carry of a firearm on campus, which is a violation of the attached policy, I have made a complaint to the VP of operations and college relations requesting that she revoke your approval to carry concealed weapon under our CPTC policy. This is also based on your stating to me that you intend to continue to carry the firearm openly when it suits you to do so. Since our policy prohibits open carry on our campuses, in the VP revokes your approval, you will no longer be allowed to carry a firearm on campus. If I see you carrying the weapon in an open carry manner on campus between today and the receipt of a decision from the VP, I will direct you to remove the weapon from campus. If you fail to do so I will summon the Lakewood Police Department to assist me in enforcing the CPTC policy.

In his email he attached a word document that expressed the school's policy and procedure with regards to weapons that said caring of weapons on campus was only to be done concealed and with permission.

The problem with this was that the page he linked to me was part of the staff policy and procedures found on the human resources section of the colleges website. The problem lies in the fact that the student policies and procedures found in the 2012- 2013 catalog specifically states on page 146 under the student code of conduct that disciplinary action may be taken for a violation of a list of provisions specifically number 10 which states "possession of firearms, except where approved by state statute"

I have already contacted the vice president with regards to this email and given her a copy of pertinent information regarding employee and student policies on campus as well as state law regarding the carrying of firearms. I have expressed my concern that I have in fact abided by both state law and the student policies and procedures.

As of now being Friday the 8th, I have yet to receive any further contact from the vice president or the head of security. Depending on the outcome I may be forced to pursue a legal recourse.

CPTC Policies and Procedures for staff

CPTC 2012-2013 catalog
- page 146 "Student Code of Conduct"
 

OlGutshotWilly

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,
Sorry never saw a thread for colleges. I've asked in other threads but was kept on topic.


I'll look it up and post the link. It included, I believe, colleges, public hospital districts, and other municipal entities. As mentioned already, the issues are separated by your status as a student vs a non-student exercising your rights under pre-emption.
 

sirpuma

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Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
905
Location
Deer Park, Washington, USA
Universities aren't there to teach people about their rights and promote freedom. They are there to program our young with Communist dogma in order to turn them into good liberals who support big government programs.
 

OlGutshotWilly

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Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,

BigDave

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Nov 22, 2006
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Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Grim your response is of little surprise as it seems you just can't stand not letting officials know you are carrying.

I think if a student took this and pushed it through the courts it would come back the College can make rules prohibiting firearms as a condition of enrollment, similar to Cherry V. Metro.
If a citizen that is not a student ran it through the same path it would come back as the College is unable to prohibit possession.
 

tannerwaterbury

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Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
269
Location
Kelso, Washington, USA
Grim your response is of little surprise as it seems you just can't stand not letting officials know you are carrying.

I think if a student took this and pushed it through the courts it would come back the College can make rules prohibiting firearms as a condition of enrollment, similar to Cherry V. Metro.
If a citizen that is not a student ran it through the same path it would come back as the College is unable to prohibit possession.

I'm not familiar with that case. I can find LONG drawn out arguments for the WSSC, but nothing that summarizes what the decision meant.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Grim your response is of little surprise as it seems you just can't stand not letting officials know you are carrying.

I think if a student took this and pushed it through the courts it would come back the College can make rules prohibiting firearms as a condition of enrollment, similar to Cherry V. Metro.
If a citizen that is not a student ran it through the same path it would come back as the College is unable to prohibit possession.

The problem with your statement is that #1 I did notsay a thing, I was simply open carrying just like anybody else on these forums. #2 the student policies and procedures supports me in that I was abiding by state law which it clearly states is the requirement. And #3 the college is funded mostly in part be both federal and state money with tuition making up only a small portion of the colleges funds. Maybe you should read thelinks that I posted before yet again criticising me.
 

BigDave

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I'm not familiar with that case. I can find LONG drawn out arguments for the WSSC, but nothing that summarizes what the decision meant.

Cherry v Metro is a case where a Metro bus driver that brought a gun to work and could be fired because he was not a member of the public. Thus, state preemption law did not apply.

I am speaking of the similarities it may present as Cherry was an employer employee relationship and here we are discussing a College and College Student relationship.
 
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