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Thread: Alert about CHP information

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Alert about CHP information

    I'm going to sit this one out but I expect most of you will want to send your own opinions to counter the protest.
    LAST-MINUTE AMENDMENTS WOULD CLOSE OFF ACCESS TO ALL CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT APPLICATIONS


    The public will have no ability to monitor government
    regulation of constitutionally protected activity.

    As originally written, SB 1335 (Obenshain) would have allowed clerks of court to withhold applications of people who have presented a certified copy of a protective order.

    We did not oppose the original version of this bill. We have said all along that individuals with protective orders should be able to get a judge to seal their application. The bill proposed not a sealing order, but a similar confidentiality provision.

    That’s how the bill went through the Senate. No objections, no amendments.

    Then, it goes into a House subcommittee -- at 7:30 a.m. Thursday morning -- and comes out with an amendment -- now a substitute -- to close off access to all CPS. ALL of them. The bill then went to the full committee this morning at 8 a.m. and was passed on a 16-6 vote.*

    We urge everyone to contact the members of
    the House to express your opposition to this bill.

    Here is WHY we oppose the substitute:

    The government has determined it will regulate this area
    of personal property ownership that can be presumed
    to be constitutionally protected activity.

    • When the government gets to say yes or no to someone having a concealed handgun,
    • When the government heavily regulates the standards by which concealed gun ownership is permitted,
    • When the government allows permits to be used as a form of identification to vote,
    • THEN THE PUBLIC MUST BE ABLE TO SEE FOR ITSELF WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT REGULATION IS CONDUCTED CORRECTLY.

    Click here for a list of House Delegates.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Ah yes, but if this amended bill is defeated, then Napkeeper's personal information/address can be obtained and published.

    Urge your representatives to vote YES - keep CHP information confidential. It isn't just about people with protective orders. It is also about not providing stop n' shop locations for criminals wishing to steal guns.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-08-2013 at 01:54 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Ah yes, but if this amended bill is defeated, then Napkeeper's personal information/address can be obtained and published.

    Urge your representatives to vote YES - keep CHP information confidential. It isn't just about people with protective orders. It is also about not providing stop n' shop locations for criminals wishing to steal guns.

    Yeah, it will.
    OTOH, she knew it when she got the CHP. It's one of those negative things about asking permission.

    I'm neutral on the bill. While it will be a good thing generally for CHP holders, we worked very hard to bring the Government into the sunshine. I'm reluctant to add a little cloud layer here and there.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Urgent Action Item from VCDL

    Urgent Action Item: Let's protect the private information on ALL CHP holders!
    ************************************************** ************

    Great news!

    Last night the Militia, Police and Public Safety subcommittee #1 approved a substitute bill for Senator Obenshain's SB 1335. As you might recall, SB 1335 prohibited the Clerk of Court from giving out any information on a CHP holder who has a protective order out against somebody.

    The substitute is much better - it exempts ALL permit holders from having their information disseminated by the Circuit Court Clerks! No more newspapers printing the names and other information on permit holders, endangering lives!

    The new bill makes it even safer for those with protective orders, as they don't have to do anything extra to protect their information - they (and you and I) are all covered 24/7!

    Even the Circuit Court Clerk's professional organization likes this bill.

    I want to thank Board member Dennis O'Connor for filling in for me at the subcommittee hearing (I was in Craig County with the shooting range issue).

    This morning the full Militia, Police and Public Safety committee met and passed the bill out to the Floor by an 11 to 4 vote.

    (As a side note, Andrew Goddard told the full committee that what they did in subcommittee to change the bill was "underhanded." That did not go over well, especially since the change was done openly and in the normal fashion in subcommittee. Goddard had decided not to attend last night's subcommittee hearing. That's his fault, not the subcommittee's fault. Delegate Lingamfelter took Goddard to task, saying that the subcommittee was simply doing business as usual and that Goddard's beef would be better summed up as simply not liking the substitute bill. Goddard finally gave half an apology, but I believe even his allies on the committee were embarrassed.)

    NOW THE WORK BEGINS!

    We need to get an email out urgently to our Delegates to make sure they support this important bill!

    Click here to send a pre-written (but editable) email to your Delegate (takes a few seconds to do):

    http://tinyurl.com/a7tocwp
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Didn't take long for the anti-gun press to sniff this out:

    http://hamptonroads.com/2013/02/move...records-public

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm going to sit this one out but I expect most of you will want to send your own opinions to counter the protest.
    It just kills me reading the propaganda from these hypocrites. They put out their plea in terms written to do their very best to convince CHP holders that it is in their best interest to have their names and addresses open for any criminal to come and collect.

    If anyone gets any face time with Megan Rhyne, please ask her for the record, how many CHP permits they have reviewed, and more importantly found to be in error and have then had corrected, during the past one or five years.

    Peter Nap, I certainly respect your right to stay neutral, and I completely understand why, but given the fact that these clearly anti-gun folks use this loophole in the privacy protection of law abiding citizens as a tool to intimidate, shame and treat as common criminals, I really don't think you would be betraying your CHP stance to admit this is not good for anyone.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    I have TWO WORDS for cry-baby Megan Rhyne: Journal News.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    By the way, not to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for supporting this bill... the fight will be in the Senate, especially in the Courts of Justice Committee! This bill, as amended, is the exact same as HB 25 from last year, which passed the House easily (81-17). Then it was killed on an 8-7 vote in the Senate's Courts of Justice Committee, at the betrayal of the Chairman, Senator Norment (R!) from the Virginia Peninsula, southeast of Richmond.

    We will certainly need to make our support known, especially given the angry propaganda that the other side will spew, but the real fight is yet to come.

    TFred

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    interesting...it said in the article that there were 297,600 people with a concealed permit, in-state. Not including those who are out of state, i did some math. It said in one of the comments that 5% of Virginians have a permit. By my math, only 3.63% have one. yea...its less than 2 percentage points, but for a state that seems to be overall pro-gun, i would have thought our percentages would be higher.

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snazuolu View Post
    interesting...it said in the article that there were 297,600 people with a concealed permit, in-state. Not including those who are out of state, i did some math. It said in one of the comments that 5% of Virginians have a permit. By my math, only 3.63% have one. yea...its less than 2 percentage points, but for a state that seems to be overall pro-gun, i would have thought our percentages would be higher.
    yeah, but the permit is only for concealing a handgun. You can be pro-gun without concealing a handgun, for instance the OP. What about the people who might only possess long guns? A permit is meaningless to them but that doesn't mean they are not pro-gun.

    Regardless of the above, if Goddard or any of his idiot cronies think it's a good idea for the public to be able to see that I have a CHP, I dare them to say it to my face, I already have my response ready, something along the lines of "please return to Blighty very quickly".

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Maybe some of us would like to leave comments on their Facebook page?

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Virgin...t/118024836400

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    yeah, but the permit is only for concealing a handgun. You can be pro-gun without concealing a handgun, for instance the OP. What about the people who might only possess long guns? A permit is meaningless to them but that doesn't mean they are not pro-gun.

    Regardless of the above, if Goddard or any of his idiot cronies think it's a good idea for the public to be able to see that I have a CHP, I dare them to say it to my face, I already have my response ready, something along the lines of "please return to Blighty very quickly".
    And take that idiot Piers Morgan with you!

    TFred

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snazuolu View Post
    interesting...it said in the article that there were 297,600 people with a concealed permit, in-state. Not including those who are out of state, i did some math. It said in one of the comments that 5% of Virginians have a permit. By my math, only 3.63% have one. yea...its less than 2 percentage points, but for a state that seems to be overall pro-gun, i would have thought our percentages would be higher.
    I don't have a permit....I guess that makes me anti??????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I don't have a permit....I guess that makes me anti??????????
    nope....weird, but not an anti. I suppose the permit thing is as weird to some of yall as open carry is to me.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Permits are for people that want the government to give them permission to use their rights.
    Also for those that want to play James Bond.


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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Permits are for people that want the government to give them permission to use their rights.
    Also for those that want to play James Bond.

    i'd rather play james bond than lucas mccain.

  17. #17
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snazuolu View Post
    i'd rather play james bond than lucas mccain.
    I guess I'm lucky that I don't give a rats ass what you'd rather play..huh Tinkerbell!

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Andrew Goddard, a gun-control advocate whose son Colin was wounded in the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre, protested the maneuver to no avail.

    “This is not the same bill. This is an entirely different bill,” he told the committee. “I think it’s a very underhanded way of getting a bill passed.”


    Pardon me a moment while I get a tissue.....I think that I feel a tear coming on....
    James Reynolds

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Andrew Goddard, a gun-control advocate whose son Colin was wounded in the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre, protested the maneuver to no avail.

    “This is not the same bill. This is an entirely different bill,” he told the committee. “I think it’s a very underhanded way of getting a bill passed.”


    Pardon me a moment while I get a tissue.....I think that I feel a tear coming on....
    I think the entire General Assembly shares your concern over Goddard..Jim.

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    Regular Member B. Reddy's Avatar
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    Pilot Online Poll....

    Poll
    Should the General Assembly pass a bill to close off public access to records of all concealed-handgun permits?

    http://hamptonroads.com/2013/02/move...records-public

  21. #21
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    One of the few things worse than an illogical lobbyist is an angry illogical lobbyist. Remember, these folks consider themselves to be "in the right", and they consider any means as justification to their "moral" ends.

    These folks are stinkin' mad, and they will be yelling and screaming and lying at the top of their lungs.

    I think one of our strongest points to use here is the fact that the full Senate AND the anti-gunners had no problem with this bill as it was originally written.

    So we need to force the question to the front of the room, exactly what has changed? What about the many more people who are in just as much danger as those with protective orders, but who do not have the money, the time or knowledge sufficient to get one put in place? Are those lives not worth as much? If those with protective orders are worth protecting, the facts would dictate that there are many others who are in just as much danger, who also need protecting.

    Also, the original bill was only protecting the information during the exact time that the order was in effect. What is to keep someone wishing to do harm from obtaining the information before the order is placed or after the order expires? Do they expect these folks to move at the expiration of each protective order?

    TFred

  22. #22
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I generally devote my energy to open carry, not concealed carry, but this is such a stupid situation, that in Virginia driverss license information is shielded but concealed carry information is not.

    Too bad wikileaks doesn't hack the DMV and release the personal information contained therein for the senators and their families. They should see how it feels before they give honest gunowners their stupid excuses.
    Last edited by Thundar; 02-10-2013 at 09:19 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I generally devote my energy to open carry, not concealed carry, but this is such a stupid situation, that in Virginia driverss license information is shielded but concealed carry information is not.

    Too bad wikileaks doesn't hack the DMV and release the personal information contained therein for the senators and their families. They should see how it feels before they give honest gunowners their stupid excuses.
    I'm pretty sure that it's Federal law that protects the privacy of drivers' licenses. But it would appear that this protection is constantly under attack as well.

    http://epic.org/privacy/drivers/

    TFred

  24. #24
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    SB 1335 is on the Full House calendar today for Second reading.

    If I'm not mistaken, this is where there is usually the most discussion. If anyone has the time, it might be interesting to watch the live video stream of the House floor today to see if any effort is made by the Democrats to change the bill again.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...31+cal+HC10211

    http://virginia-house.granicus.com/V....php?view_id=3

    TFred

  25. #25
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Well, apparently they ran through about 1/3 of the scheduled calendar and then just stopped and adjourned until tomorrow.

    I have no idea why.

    I hope tomorrow's calendar will cover it.

    TFred

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