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McGinn Has Authority To Shut Down Gun Sales On Street, During Gun Buyback...

amzbrady

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[QUOTE=Beretta92FSLady;1894934]This morning, on KIRO radio, McGinn was questioned about his authority to shut-down street firearm sales/purchases during the city buy-back program. McGinn stated that he has the authority to shut down street sales/purchases in Seattle.

Sorry, looked, and looked, for the footage, but couldn't find it...just getting it out there.

For some reason, they don't have the entirety of the interview from this morning.

Here's the link, though...maybe there is someone more internet savvy than I:
http://kiroradio.com/listen/9952094

You know, it just dawned on me that this is not OC related...so, if it needs to be moved, move it, powers that be. Thank you![/
QUOTE]

If it is off topic and in need of being moved, SpyderTatoo will let you know or report it to admin, until then good topic on something that relates to the open carriers who went down and purchased firearms while open carrying.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Question? who the hell is "carl"? that McGinn keeps referencing in the article? he's not the seattle city attorney, who do I PDR? the mayors office or the Seattle Attorney?

Does an attorney not working for the City Attorney's office have the authority to issue an opinion for police enforcment? McGinn referred to him as "the attorney in my office" is this "carl" a city employee?
 
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SeattleWingsfan

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Question? who the hell is "carl"? that McGinn keeps referencing in the article? he's not the seattle city attorney, who do I PDR? the mayors office or the Seattle Attorney?

Does an attorney not working for the City Attorney's office have the authority to issue an opinion for police enforcment? McGinn referred to him as "the attorney in my office" is this "carl" a city employee?


http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/contact/team.htm
--------------------
Carl Marquardt
Legal Counsel

To schedule a meeting with Carl, contact
Jennifer Cramer jennifer.cramer@seattle.gov

Carl Marquardt serves as Legal Counsel to the Mayor. He is responsible for advising the Mayor and Mayor's staff on legal issues related to the functioning of the office, and serves as primary liaison to the City Attorney's Office, Seattle Police Department, and Seattle Fire Department. Carl is a graduate of Yale University and the University of Washington School of Law. After law school, he served as a law clerk to the Hon. Mary K. Becker on the Washington Court of Appeals, and was a partner in the Seattle law firm of Stokes Lawrence. He lives in the Madrona neighborhood with his wife and three children.

--------------------
 
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SeattleWingsfan

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Carl still has not answered my request for a Cite and reasoning for how the Cite will work on the issue of private sales.

Kiro Radio was mentioning 500 dollar fines all day yesterday. I thought about calling in and telling them that so far the city has not answered me on how the Cite given in the article will stop people. Even if it is enforcable on a street or sidewalk. Other public areas are game as well as private parking lots. This is clearly just a way to scare people into not going next time.

I guess my main issue with all of this is how they keep saying they need to stop this because they don't know who is getting the firearms. What ever happened in this country to innocent until proven guilty so to speak. They should assume that all transactions are leagal and to people leagal to own, until proven otherwise. At whatever point if it ever happened that the laws infact got changed for back ground checks in the right process. If unlawful sales happened then they could and should deal with it.

I don't see this much differnt than Amberg trying to make a motion and walking out. It's all people of athority trying to displace their ideas on the public without doing their duty to make changes in the correct manor.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Carl still has not answered my request for a Cite and reasoning for how the Cite will work on the issue of private sales.

Kiro Radio was mentioning 500 dollar fines all day yesterday. I thought about calling in and telling them that so far the city has not answered me on how the Cite given in the article will stop people. Even if it is enforcable on a street or sidewalk. Other public areas are game as well as private parking lots. This is clearly just a way to scare people into not going next time.

I guess my main issue with all of this is how they keep saying they need to stop this because they don't know who is getting the firearms. What ever happened in this country to innocent until proven guilty so to speak. They should assume that all transactions are leagal and to people leagal to own, until proven otherwise. At whatever point if it ever happened that the laws infact got changed for back ground checks in the right process. If unlawful sales happened then they could and should deal with it.

I don't see this much differnt than Amberg trying to make a motion and walking out. It's all people of athority trying to displace their ideas on the public without doing their duty to make changes in the correct manor.

Well let's light a fire under his office(figuratively speaking) have process server deliver a printed public disclosure request straight to his office in city hall. that'll get his attention. although it is Saturday, so maybe he just took off early friday and won't do any office work until monday.

other wise, do we all show up to the next one bidding anyway and let them cite us to challenge it? or is their intimidation game working. because I certainly don't want to be the only person who shows up to buy and thus an easy target, if we get 90-100-120 people and all refuse to consent to detentions, won't talk to the officers and continue bidding it will be much more difficult for the city to target people.
 
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Jeff Hayes

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It depends.

If you go there for the purpose of reselling, you are engaged in a business, even if you were to eventually lose money.

But if you are going there to enhance your personal collection, at whatever price, you are not engaged in a business, even if you were to eventually resell and make a huge windfall profit.

It comes down to intent, and the burden of proof would be on the party claiming you are doing it as a business.

Wouldn't one need an FFL to purchase with the intent to resell.
 

SeattleWingsfan

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Nothing says that you have to plan to keep the gun forever. Maybe you just always thought it would be cool to shoot one. You have the right to buy it and try it. If you don't like it you can sell it. Maybe you consider that a loop hole. Isn't that what the city is looking for to prevent us from buying the next time.


Speaking of loop holes.

SMC 15.17.005 Authorized vending in public places


No person shall vend to the public in a public place unless authorized below:

A. The permittee's activity occurs in an area that is permitted for that type of an activity, for example: Chapter 11.25, parade permits; Chapters 15.08 and 15.16, areaway or sidewalk cafe Street Use permits; street areas within the Pike Place Market Historical District (Chapter 25.24) that are being administered by the Pike Place Market Preservation and Development Authority; Chapter 15.35, filming permits; Chapter 15.52, Special Event permits; or Chapter 6.310, Taxicabs and For-hire Vehicles; or

B. The permittee has obtained a Street Use permit authorized by Sections 15.17.080, 15.17.100, 15.17.120, 15.17.130, 15.17.150, or 15.17. 200; or

C. The vendor is vending newspapers, magazines, event programs, and other similar publications on foot, as authorized by Chapter 15.14


Could you read this to say if I am selling a stack of newspapers on foot I am leagal to vend? It doesn't say thats the only thing I can sell or buy. Just that if I am selling news papers I can vend. We read rules and laws very clearly for what they say, just as I am sure the city will say thats what they will be doing trying to give 500 dollar tickets. I'll have to go over the new stand municiple code.
 
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gogodawgs

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The city does not need to scare the buyers with threats of fines or legal wranglings and they know this. They read this forum and they understand that the group on this forum knows the laws, they know that OCDO knows attorney's, etc...

The city only needs to confuse, intimidate and scare away the sellers. The sellers are far less knowledgeable and ignorant of the laws and will more easily capitulate to the city and SPD.
 

SeattleWingsfan

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Very true. So I guess the play is to concentrate on educating the public. Which is always the problem anyway.


Maybe an interview, or article needs to be put out there. Maybe we can even use and keep putting out the Mayors comments that they can't enforce sales in other areas or private places. As long as we are not in the city right of way we should be good.

As far as pushing the point of making it illegal for the city to vend. And hold them to the same standards. Does anyone know if the city or police filed for a permit to vend?
 

MSG Laigaie

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The city only needs to confuse, intimidate and scare away the sellers. The sellers are far less knowledgeable and ignorant of the laws and will more easily capitulate to the city and SPD.

This is truth. As long as it is legal to purchase anything on the sidewalk, I will be there. If anything I will get to p.o. the mayor.
 

Bill Starks

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Title 15 - STREET AND SIDEWALK USE
Subtitle I. - Street Use Ordinance
Chapter 15.52 - CROWD CONTROL EVENTSSMC 15.52.040 Special event permits required.
A. A special event permit or authorization from the Special Events Committee is required for any special event, as defined in this chapter, except that no special event permit shall be required if the event sponsor, organizer or other party and the City have entered into a written agreement covering the same matters as would otherwise be included in a special event permit for such an event. Such special event permit shall be in addition to any street or park use permit, or other regular permits as may be required by ordinance.
B. To avoid duplication, when a special event permit covers the subject matter to their satisfaction, the Director of Transportation and/or as to parks, park drives and boulevards, the Superintendent of Parks and Recreation, respectively, may waive issuing a separate street use permit or park use permit.
C. When a special event permit is required, no street use permit shall issue under this title, nor shall a park use permit issue pursuant to Title 18, for such an event until the Special Events Committee has issued its special event permit therefor or otherwise authorized the issuance of the departmental permits, unless pursuant to subsection B the Director and/or the Superintendent waive issuance of separate permits.
D. When a special event permit is required, the Special Events Committee shall, after reviewing the application and if necessary meeting with the organizer, advise the organizer of all other permits that appear to be required for the event based on information contained in the application; and assist the organizer in contacting other departments to apply for all other permits in a timely manner.
E. When such an event will be an exercise of rights protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution, or Article I, Sections 3, 4, 5, or 11 of the Washington Constitution, the application shall be processed promptly, without charging a fee for political or religious activities or imposing terms or conditions that infringe constitutional freedoms, and in a manner that respects the liberties of applicants and the public.
Legislative history/notes:
( Ord. 120631 § 4, 2001; Ord. 118409 § 106, 1996; Ord. 117569 § 128, 1995; Ord. 115982 § 1(part), 1991.)
 

gogodawgs

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http://mynorthwest.com/11/2197651/Seattle-Mayor-Mike-McGinn-No-more-sidewalk-gun-sales

At Seattle's gun buyback in late January, gun dealers showed up offering cash for weapons while people waited in line. Mayor Mike McGinn says that will not happen again."I can assure you that the next time that we do a gun buyback, and we do intend to do another one, we can shut it down," McGinn tells Seattle's Morning News.
The impromptu gun bazaar on the the sidewalk near the buyback location upset McGinn and other leaders who organized the buyback, which offered gift certificates in exchange for unwanted firearms.
The mayor said on Friday that he investigated whether the city had the authority to prevent the private gun buys. McGinn tells KIRO Radio the city can issue a $500 fine for people doing business in city right of way without a license (SMC 15.17.).
"We can prevent that gun bazaar the next time. I went to my attorney in my office and I said, 'Carl, next time we do one of these, what's my authority to stop it? If I don't have authority, I'm going to ask the city council to get authority.' And he found me some authority and we're going to shut it down next time," said McGinn.
McGinn is still defending gun buyback programs. He acknowledged that the buybacks alone won't make a significant dent in gun violence. But he points out that many gun accidents happen at home.
"We just took 719 weapons off the street that people didn't want in their homes."
The mayor said he also supports efforts in the state legislature to require background checks on all gun sales.

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~public/toc/15-17.htm
 

BigDave

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Vendor

World English Dictionary
vendor or vender
— n
1. chiefly law a person who sells something, esp real property
2. another name for vending machine

McGinn should make sure his license is current or he could be fined $500 :lol:
 
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Bill Starks

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found this today: http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scri...=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=1&f=G

[h=3]Seattle Municipal Code[/h]Information retrieved February 10, 2013 3:12 PM

Title 10 - HEALTH AND SAFETY
Chapter 10.02 - CIVIL EMERGENCIESSMC 10.02.020 Authority of Mayor to issue certain orders.

which has had this update:
http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scri...ITOFF&d=ORDF&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=0&f=S


10.02.020 - Authority of Mayor to issue certain orders(( . ))
A. Upon the proclamation of a civil emergency by the Mayor, and during the existence of such civil emergency, the Mayor may, in a form that meets the requirements of Section 10.02.025, make and proclaim any or all of the following orders:
(( H )) 8 . An order closing to the public any or all public places including streets, alleys, public ways, schools, parks, beaches, amusement areas, and public buildings;
(( I )) 9 . An order prohibiting the carrying or possession of a firearm or any instrument which is capable of producing bodily harm and which is carried or possessed with intent to use the same to cause such harm, provided that any such order shall not apply to peace officers or military personnel engaged in the performance of their official duties;


 

EMNofSeattle

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found this today: http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scri...=HITOFF&l=20&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=1&f=G

[h=3]Seattle Municipal Code[/h]Information retrieved February 10, 2013 3:12 PM

Title 10 - HEALTH AND SAFETY
Chapter 10.02 - CIVIL EMERGENCIESSMC 10.02.020 Authority of Mayor to issue certain orders.

which has had this update:
http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scri...ITOFF&d=ORDF&p=1&u=/~public/code1.htm&r=0&f=S


10.02.020 - Authority of Mayor to issue certain orders(( . ))
A. Upon the proclamation of a civil emergency by the Mayor, and during the existence of such civil emergency, the Mayor may, in a form that meets the requirements of Section 10.02.025, make and proclaim any or all of the following orders:
(( H )) 8 . An order closing to the public any or all public places including streets, alleys, public ways, schools, parks, beaches, amusement areas, and public buildings;
(( I )) 9 . An order prohibiting the carrying or possession of a firearm or any instrument which is capable of producing bodily harm and which is carried or possessed with intent to use the same to cause such harm, provided that any such order shall not apply to peace officers or military personnel engaged in the performance of their official duties;



That bolded part is preempted and repealed under RCW 9.41.290. Seattle wouldn't try to pull that, they know they're going to lose if that one is challenged
 

Bill Starks

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Here is my idea...

Next time Seattle or any city announces a buy back program, we "The People" announce our own buyback program a day earlier and promote the hell out of it. If we have to, rent a empty lot, get a flea market permit ($90) and buy till funds are exhausted.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Here is my idea...

Next time Seattle or any city announces a buy back program, we "The People" announce our own buyback program a day earlier and promote the hell out of it. If we have to, rent a empty lot, get a flea market permit ($90) and buy till funds are exhausted.

sounds good to me, the only thing I would worry about though is who is liable if someone buys "hot" guns. I doubt McGrim will allow a police officer to be there to run serials.... is there any civilian database of serial numbers? I'm not so much worried about old rifles being brought in, but semi auto pistols, any pistol chambered in .32 or .25, H&R revolvers, .38 Smiths, etc are heavy crime weapons so I would be leery of buying those from Joe Blow off the street. plus there's one other thing I'd worry about, in McGrim really hates us, he'll send a undercover cop with stolen gun get someone to buy it, then arrest them for possessing a stolen gun (RCW 9A.56.310) right in front of the news media....

now I'm liking the idea a little less..... but it's a GREAT idea, not being sarcastic, we just gotta find a way to deal with some minor issues like I outlined to avoid being hosed by the city and eliminate an appearance of impropriety, I wouldn't put much past Mayor Mike who rides his Bike.....
 
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