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Thread: Had an incident today...Probably going to need a lawyer

  1. #1
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    Had an incident today...Probably going to need a lawyer

    Due to legal reasons, I obviously won't be posting what occurred on here, but I would like the advice of legal council and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction? This involves a self defense vs. brandishing claim.

    Thanks

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brlong23 View Post
    Due to legal reasons, I obviously won't be posting what occurred on here, but I would like the advice of legal council and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction? This involves a self defense vs. brandishing claim.

    Thanks
    I am not sure what part of the state you are in, but give Dan Hawes a call.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brlong23 View Post
    Due to legal reasons, I obviously won't be posting what occurred on here, but I would like the advice of legal council and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction? This involves a self defense vs. brandishing claim.

    Thanks
    Dan doesn't solicit business on these sites....so I'll do it for you...call Dan and keep your mouth shut.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Dan doesn't solicit business on these sites....so I'll do it for you...call Dan and keep your mouth shut.
    +100
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  5. #5
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    No charge for a brief chat by phone. I'll be around most of the weekend. If I don't answer, leave a message without referring to the facts of the case.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member jsfrederick's Avatar
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    + a bazillion!

    Dan is a great guy, you can't go wrong with him. PLEASE call him ASAP.

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    Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justine View Post
    Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.
    +1
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    We will be watching and waiting for any information as your may attorney allow. Let us know if there is anything that we might do to assist.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Had an incident today...Probably going to need a lawyer

    +1 for Dan. Hope all goes well for you. Let us know if we can help.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Had an incident today...Probably going to need a lawyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    We will be watching and waiting for any information as your may attorney allow. Let us know if there is anything that we might do to assist.
    +1
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Regular Member mtbinva's Avatar
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    Had an incident today...Probably going to need a lawyer

    +1 for Dan. Good luck. Do NOT post and follow the advice of counsel.
    Chance favors only the prepared mind.

    Louis Pasteur


  13. #13
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    Well, my interest level has been piqued again! And following, anticipating details as allowed.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Thanks for the support and advice everyone. Mr. Hawes, I'd like to speak with you tomorrow morning if that's acceptable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Well, my interest level has been piqued again! And following, anticipating details as allowed.
    Yeah, well, we're lying low on this one for the time being, and I would ask that we let this thread cool off. There won't be any details for some time to come. If, as, and when we can talk about it, we will. Until then, please just forget about it.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Yeah, well, we're lying low on this one for the time being, and I would ask that we let this thread cool off. There won't be any details for some time to come. If, as, and when we can talk about it, we will. Until then, please just forget about it.
    Delayed gratification often is much better that instantaneous gratification....
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    I am pleased to inform everyone that the Stafford County Sheriff's Office declined to charge me with anything in this incident.

    The abridged version of events is as follows...

    I was driving home when another vehicle cut me off so I honked my horn at him. The driver then swerved into the right lane, rolled down his window and began swearing at me and flipping me off. I proceeded to pass him and continue on my way. At this point, the driver passed me again and then began brake checking me. At this point, I wanted to remove myself from the situation so I pulled into a vacant business lot along the road and was going to let the driver continue on his way. I was not aware that there was a second entrance to this parking lot and the driver of the other vehicle had entered there and drove back around to where I had parked at. He pulled along side my car with approximately 10 ft. of distance between us and proceeded to yell more profanities...this is when stuff starts to go south. Due to tinted windows, I was not aware that there were other people in the vehicle. Immediately after the driver stopped, a man in his late teens/early twenties exited the passenger seat, ran around the car and towards mine. He then swung at me through my window in an attempt to hit me. I moved my head to the right and all he managed to connect with was my headrest. At this point, I removed my seat belt and drew my Glock 36 .45 and pointed it at him through my window while ordering him to back up, which he did. The driver of the vehicle then exited his car and began to approach which emboldened the first assailant to approach as well. Rather than be restricted in my vehicle, I opened my door so that I could face both without being hindered. I continued to tell them they needed to get back in their vehicle and leave while they continued to yell, swear, spit and instigate me. This continued for 1-2 minutes until the decided they weren't going to bait me into a fight. They got in their car and left. I re-holstered my Glock, got in my car and drove the opposite direction. As far as I was concerned, the incident was over at this point and nothing more was required because I didn't intend to press charges for the assault.

    Fast forward about 2 hours and 5 Stafford County officers come knocking on my door. Apparently, the driver and his teenage son (the one who swung on me) got my license plate and called the police. I was told that I was being charged with 3 counts of brandishing a firearm and that they would need to document my Glock and take it for evidence. They asked for my version of events so I provided them with my side of the story and also signed a sworn statement reiterating what I told them. I was told by the officer in charge that he would be the one who files the report and would talk with the magistrate about what to do next.

    Received a call this morning telling me that the officer declined to follow up with the charges based on his encounter with me and the different version of events and that I could come pick up my Glock today. I am not one for social bias but based on my encounter with these individuals, they were "rednecks" who likely thought because I drive a nice car and was by myself, they were going to screw around with me and were just looking for a fight. When they determined they lost before they knew it, they decided to try and get even. Anyways, that's the gist of it.

    I would like to say some things. First, thanks for everyone's advice to seek out Mr. Hawes who I would like to thank as well. I spoke with him the weekend following this event and he was more than willing to speak with me and provided me with a lot of good advice. Thankfully, I didn't have to retain his services. Second, I am exceedingly happy with the Stafford County Sheriff's Office and the way they handled the situation. When making contact with me at my home, they were polite, nonintrusive, and complied with my request that only one officer was going to come inside my house to retrieve my firearm.

    I'll be happy to answer anyone's questions about this.

    Thanks,

    Brandon

  18. #18
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Congratulations on the end to your bad karma. I hope Dan had some good advice on how to avoid it in the future. Another incident that proves when in doubt call a lawyer.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Congratulations on the end to your bad karma. I hope Dan had some good advice on how to avoid it in the future. Another incident that proves when in doubt call a lawyer.
    Dan was terrific. I spoke to him for about 30 minutes and he walked me through the various scenarios and what to expect along the way. He made it clear I was able to contact him again should i require anything else or if I needed advice.

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    Any tips given on how that could have been better handled from a legal standpoint? Call the cops yourself (best defense is a strong offense)?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltH2OHokie View Post
    Any tips given on how that could have been better handled from a legal standpoint? Call the cops yourself (best defense is a strong offense)?
    Glad to hear it worked out....been there.

    You were doing OK until you got to the Redneck part!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Glad to hear it worked out....been there.

    You were doing OK until you got to the Redneck part!
    I thought the same thing...that stung a bit...

  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Glad to hear it worked out....been there.

    You were doing OK until you got to the Redneck part!
    I swear it wasn't me!
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  24. #24
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltH2OHokie View Post
    Any tips given on how that could have been better handled from a legal standpoint? Call the cops yourself (best defense is a strong offense)?
    Congratulations on the successful outcome. I agree that calling the police would have probably been in your best interest. By letting the incident go and assuming that it was over, you allowed the other party to frame the incident and be the complainant causing the police to question your version. Luckily, the truth was discovered, but there was nothing to prevent the other driver from "imbellishing" and "setting the tone".

    By calling the cops and providing a report, it would have allowed whatever law enforcement agent that handled the "incident" to already have an idea of YOUR side of the story.

    I wouldn't necessarily describe it as the "best defense is a strong offense"...(perspective is always a strange animal). The other driver might very well have thought he was a victim. I'm sure he probably wasn't familiar with definitions of aggressor/defender and requirements of carrying. His ignorance means nothing. Allowing him to call the cops and say, "Hey! This guy pulled a gun on me! Here's his license plate number." without any frame of reference previously given to police allows HIM to define the incident regardless of how intentionally or unintentionally accurate, or inaccurate.

    You obviously felt threatened enough to draw your firearm. Fortunately, the situation ended without you reaching the threshold to actually use lethal force. However, in my opinion, being the one to report an incident in which I felt threatened would be preferable to waiting for someone else, who's perspective might be different than mine, to define the issue.

    Do you imagine his version included him following you into the parking lot? My guess is, this small detail might have been omitted in the other guy's version which may have started, midstream, with "My friends and I were in this parking lot when......."

    Otherwise, I'm happy that the outcome ended favorably for you. Thanks for sharing it. Hopefully, it helps others to think about things they would do if faced with a similar situation. It caused me to think about what different choices I would have made. Hope you don't take my input as anything critical. I'm just simply sharing my opinion.

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    My apologies for the redneck comment. I've lived in Virginia for a few years now and know how that could be viewed...lol

    In response to the questions about advice on doing this differently. Yes, I received advice from several people who I spoke to regarding the situation and what could have been done differently and the potential legal ramifications based on how I did handle the situation.

    Most notably, it was recommended to me that I had the opportunity to leave several times and/or roll my window up. Also, I probably shouldn't have exited my vehicle following the threat from the 2nd individual approaching my vehicle as that could be viewed as confrontational on my part. The biggest question from a legal perspective was going to be reasonable use of force because the other individuals were unarmed.

    In my mind, I did everything right up until they pulled up next to me in the parking lot. Should I have immediately left...probably; but as it was occurring in real time, there wasn't but maybe 2-3 seconds between me seeing them pulling around the parking lot, stopping next to me, and the individual running towards my car. Unfortunately, things happen quickly and in my mind, these people were determined to confront me one way or another and right or wrong, I'm not the "back down" type of person. I was under the assumption that no matter what I did, they were going to aggressively pursue me. I'm a combat veteran who stands 6'2" and 195 lbs and I have a lot of experience on what I deem to be a necessary use of force to protect myself. I know the courts would have a different opinion on that, but that does not change my view on what I feel is needed to protect myself, my family and my property.

    Finally, I should have called the police immediately after this occurred. I know that and it was told to me by everyone I spoke to. This being the first time I've actually had to draw my weapon in defense, I regrettably felt like I was in the right and it was incumbent on me as to if I wanted to press charges for the assault. It honestly never occurred to me that these individuals would later call the police since they were obviously the instigators. So much for my faith in humanity? I am thankful that I was vindicated and in speaking with the officer over the course of this, I was glad to know that his impression was that they obviously fabricated some version of events and portrayed me as someone I'm not. This was offset by my encounter with the police at my home where they saw me as a rational and coherent individual, the complete opposite of what I was described as.

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