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  1. #1
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    Brand new here with ?'s

    Am I reading this right I can't transport my gun in a vehicle just to open carry it ? I can't carry open anywhere that has a liquor licence ? Also any advice on how to get a CPL after I've been denied ? I live in Ottawa county and they have a three person commitee that desides. Two of the three said no. There is "nothing" on the list of requirements that is on my record. Their reason was the catch all statement (possible harm or threat to self of someone else) I can't tell you why they said that, cause they won't tell me. Please help.

  2. #2
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    CASPER, you might have wanted to post this in the MI forum. most of the question you want to know are state level
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  3. #3
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    Wrong spot.

    Please read my post in the Law library section, I don't know how to move it.


    --Moderator Note--
    You cannot accomplished that.
    I did it for you though and merged the two threads.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 02-11-2013 at 01:44 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Here is what was posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    Am I reading this right I can't transport my gun in a vehicle just to open carry it ? I can't carry open anywhere that has a liquor licence ? Also any advice on how to get a CPL after I've been denied ? I live in Ottawa county and they have a three person commitee that desides. Two of the three said no. There is "nothing" on the list of requirements that is on my record. Their reason was the catch all statement (possible harm or threat to self of someone else) I can't tell you why they said that, cause they won't tell me. Please help.
    Michigan is a shall issue state. If you meet all the requirements they shall issue you a permit. I'd say appeal it.

    ETA: Read the stickies
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 02-11-2013 at 01:31 AM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  5. #5
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    Am I reading this right I can't transport my gun in a vehicle just to open carry it?
    I'm not a lawyer, so all my following responses are a layman's based on the experience of many others. Consult with an attorney on these responses, if you feel you want professional legal confirmation:

    Many non-CPL OC'ers transport their lawfully owned handgun in a vehicle just to open carry it. If you don't have a CPL, it is recommended that you not answer officer questions about where you are coming from or going to. Just politely state, "I don't wish to discuss my itinerary, sir." This is because there is a very low, but not non-existent, risk that a rogue officer will wrongly interpret the law as not allowing you to transport between points not on "the list" of examples in the law.

    As a non-CPL, there are several laws that you MUST also be familiar with, pertaining to how to legally transport, places that are off-limits (including their parking lots), etc. Based on your asking a very basic question above, I think it's likely you don't know other things you need to know. I would recommend that your first open carry be done by meeting up with an experienced OC'er, following their guidance on the meet-up.


    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    I can't carry open anywhere that has a liquor licence?
    Without a CPL, you must have permission to OC from the owner or manager of the licensed establishment. Otherwise, yes it is off-limits. And it includes the entire property of the establishment, including parking lot. Also, note that you should assume that every place that sells any food or beverage (including grocery stores, gas stations, etc.) is liquor licensed unless you find out otherwise.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  6. #6
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Casper [assuming you are not one of pat's many sock puppets):

    Here is a link to the Michigan Liquor Control Commission's search tool. It will help you avoid places that sell liquor.

    http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mlcc/liclists/liclis4.htm
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #7
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    And it includes the entire property of the establishment, including parking lot.
    MCL states "premises," and MLCC defines premises as the buildings and specifically in writing excludes all parking lots.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
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  8. #8
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    MCL states "premises," and MLCC defines premises as the buildings and specifically in writing excludes all parking lots.
    I prefaced my response with "I'm not a lawyer, so all my following responses are a layman's based on the experience of many others."

    The experiences of many non-CPL OC'ers I've heard is that they stay completely off the premises of liquor licensed establishments when OC'ing. I don't know if this is because in their opinion the MLCC definition of "premises" can't be applied to 750.234d, or they've found something else. All I know is every non-CPL OC'er I've heard says their guidance is to stay completely off the premises.

    If I were a non-CPL OC'er, I would go with what I've heard from other non-CPL OC'ers unless you've got some firm citations of sources for your suggestion.

    If a bunch of non-CPL OC'ers post here to update me with the current state of their situation, I'll go with that too, and update my layman's understanding of the experience that many others are having.
    Last edited by DanM; 02-11-2013 at 08:05 PM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Brand new here with ?'s

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I prefaced my response with "I'm not a lawyer, so all my following responses are a layman's based on the experience of many others."

    The experiences of many non-CPL OC'ers I've heard is that they stay completely off the premises of liquor licensed establishments when OC'ing. I don't know if this is because in their opinion the MLCC definition of "premises" can't be applied to 750.234d, or they've found something else. All I know is every non-CPL OC'er I've heard says their guidance is to stay completely off the premises.

    If I were a non-CPL OC'er, I would go with what I've heard from other non-CPL OC'ers unless you've got some firm citations of sources for your suggestion.

    If a bunch of non-CPL OC'ers post here to update me with the current state of their situation, I'll go with that too, and update my layman's understanding of the experience that many others are having.
    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/....html#msg13009
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Thanks, Phil. casper, check that link out. Without a CPL and without permission to OC from an owner or manager, don't OC anywhere on a liquor licensed establishment until you've read what is at that link and have considered what MOC suggests you consider as far as your level of risk tolerance for becoming a test case and your level of funds for such a possibility.

    MOC is a good website for you to use, as well, as you gain info and guidance on OC.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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