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Thread: Open carry in a Chestefield Elementary School - Arrest

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Open carry in a Chestefield Elementary School - Arrest

    James Reynolds

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    Pretty dumb on his part, but many people I've run across who don't know gun laws have no idea a person is forbidden by law from carrying a gun in school. It makes no sense them. The fact that he was arrested the following day with no issue, shows the folly of the prohibition on carrying a firearm in schools. If he had intended to cause harm, he'd have done so, just like anywhere else.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Pretty dumb on his part, but many people I've run across who don't know gun laws have no idea a person is forbidden by law from carrying a gun in school. It makes no sense them. The fact that he was arrested the following day with no issue, shows the folly of the prohibition on carrying a firearm in schools. If he had intended to cause harm, he'd have done so, just like anywhere else.
    It does show how ineffective the law is JM....but not knowing it was illegal is past stupid and makes us all look bad.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    It's a shame that the new bill heard today in the Senate wasn't amended to allow legal carry.

    Chesterfield father arrested for bringing pistol to daughter's school
    A Chesterfield County father has been charged with openly carrying a pistol last Thursday into his daughter’s elementary school.

    Chesterfield County police said Michael A. O’Berry, 33, of the 100 block of Ruthers Road, walked into A.M. Davis Elementary School with a 9mm holstered to his side.

    Oliver had arrived to pick up his daughter, said Chesterfield police Lt. Randy Horowitz.

    After conducting his business in the school’s front office, he left without incident.

    The next day, police charged O’Berry with possession of a firearm on school property, a felony. Police confiscated the weapon.

    O’Berry told police he didn’t know it was against the law to carry a gun onto school property.

    I didn't know

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    The penalty should be a simple $50 fine ... nothing more ... but its likely not .. they'll treat him like a killer...

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Well...

    IF:

    He is sincere
    The prosecutor is sympathetic
    His record is clean
    He keeps his cool


    Then maybe, just maybe, he'll be allowed to plead to a misdemeanor with probation. But his gun is gone. And if he HAD a permit, that too.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I just wonder if his intent was to force a case to SCOTUS before Obama changes the court. If that is the case, I pray for him, if he loses he will suffer until and if he is cleared. God speed!

    I honestly doubt he didn't know.
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    Not smart

    Even if he "didn't know" as he claims, I wonder just why the judge is keeping him locked up until trial NEXT MONTH??????

    Seems a bit overboard to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I just wonder if his intent was to force a case to SCOTUS before Obama changes the court. If that is the case, I pray for him, if he loses he will suffer until and if he is cleared. God speed!

    I honestly doubt he didn't know.
    I doubt it because he could have challenged the law without exposing himself to jail time.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Chesterfield County police said Michael A. O’Berry, 33, of the 100 block of Ruthers Road, walked into A.M. Davis Elementary School with a 9mm holstered to his side.
    Oliver had arrived to pick up his daughter, said Chesterfield police Lt. Randy Horowitz.
    It appears that the administration of A.M. Davis Elementary School does not care about either the safety of the students or about following School Board policy. As soon as someone noticed he had a gun the school should have instituted its lock-down procedure. Had Mr. O'Berry been a mentally deranged individual bent on rapid mass murder, the failure of the school to go into lock-down mode would have forced him to work that much harder to achieve his aims.

    Eithrer that or someone at the school has figured out that going into lock-down is one of the best ways to assure a high body count. But what are the chances of that?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It appears that the administration of A.M. Davis Elementary School does not care about either the safety of the students or about following School Board policy. As soon as someone noticed he had a gun the school should have instituted its lock-down procedure. Had Mr. O'Berry been a mentally deranged individual bent on rapid mass murder, the failure of the school to go into lock-down mode would have forced him to work that much harder to achieve his aims.

    Eithrer that or someone at the school has figured out that going into lock-down is one of the best ways to assure a high body count. But what are the chances of that?

    stay safe.
    or...someone in the school with a modicum of common sense said to themselves, "hey, here is a guy with a gun who poses no threat and is just conducting his business so there's no need to panic"......


    nah....that's expecting too much.
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Any criticism of this man from people here plays into the hands of the anti-RKBA zealots. Why should any person here ridicule this man for violating a moronic-and above all, unconstitutional-law?

    We should be talking about setting up a defense fund for this man, and protesting in front of the jail on his behalf, rather that competing with our worst enemies in stigmatizing a man who did absolutely nothing wrong (wrong being defined by sane standards, and not mere laws made by opportunistic imbeciles).

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Why should any person here ridicule this man for violating a moronic-and above all, unconstitutional-law?
    That's real simple. He just made it easier to toughen the GFZ laws.

    I always wonder where someone with a post or two, that floats in on an Lifeboy Soapbox....floated from.
    Last edited by peter nap; 02-12-2013 at 03:08 PM.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Even if he "didn't know" as he claims, I wonder just why the judge is keeping him locked up until trial NEXT MONTH??????

    Seems a bit overboard to me.
    Because now the judicial system has an opportunity to make up for all those times when someone illegally brought a gun to school and didn't get prosecuted (because they killed themselves). Mr. O'Berry is about to become the Poster Maniac for Endangering School Children.
    Last edited by 2a4all; 02-12-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's real simple. He just made it easier to toughen the GFZ laws.
    Blame for that rests with the anti-liberty fools. Blaming a fellow gun owner for violating an asinine, unconstitutional law shows weakness, which you better believe that the Brady Bunch will exploit.

    I always wonder where someone with a post or two, that floats in on an [sic] Lifeboy Soapbox....floated from.
    Certainly not North Korea. Is there some rule against criticizing those who imitate the anti-SA tyrants ("OMG he took a gun into a SCHOOOOOOOL!!!!!111") if your post count is in the single digits?

    Firearms have been stigmatized enough. People who support the RKBA should be trying to reverse this, which does not entail acting as if the combination of "gun" with "school" is inherently bad.

    Yes, he violated a statute, which essentially every last person does, as it is impossible to know every single law on the books, so that is a rather weak angle (especially since this particular statute should never have been put on the books in the first place).
    Last edited by minarchist; 02-12-2013 at 03:25 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Any criticism of this man from people here plays into the hands of the anti-RKBA zealots. Why should any person here ridicule this man for violating a moronic-and above all, unconstitutional-law?

    We should be talking about setting up a defense fund for this man, and protesting in front of the jail on his behalf, rather that competing with our worst enemies in stigmatizing a man who did absolutely nothing wrong (wrong being defined by sane standards, and not mere laws made by opportunistic imbeciles).
    But, you see, that's just the point.

    While the law may be both flawed and ineffective in preventing any actual harm to those at the schools, we have all (go read the forum rules) agreed that the way to addres that is by those lawful means in existence for changing the laws. Advocating for or endorsing someone's violation of the law is not supported - at least not publically.

    I find it difficult to believe that the person did not know that his action was illegal. As much as I "forget" certain things, I find myself reviewing the go/no-go status of my destinations both as I leave the house and as I travel during the day. I have met a few who knowingly gambled at not being found out to be violsating the law, but they took steps to reduce the possibility of being seen/discovered violating the law. From what little information has been made available it seems Mr. O'Berry OC'd into the school.

    While I agree that the law is both useless and harmful, I am reluctant to spend money defending someone who intentionally violated the law unless they specifically set out, like Ghandi or MLK, Jr. or many others, to challenge the law. I would be hard-pressed to consider donating to a fund for Rosa Parks, who never wanted or intended to challenge the law, but knowingly violated it for personal convenience. (That does nothing to reduce the import of the outcome of her criminal trial. It just defines the way I see things.)

    If you are going to stage a protest against the incarceration and criminal prosecution of Mr. O'Berry, I would suggest you do so in front of the Commonwealth Attorney's office rather than in front of the jail. The jailers did not make the decision to arrest him, and they will have nothing to do with bringing him to trial and seeking to convict him. (Additionally, there is public access to amenities at the CA's office but not at the jail. If you have never protested before you will not understand why acess to such is important.)

    Since the crime alleged is a misdemeanor felony http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1 the chance for jury nullification does not exist are possible, although unlikely.

    That leaves us with convincing the General Assembly that the law is both ineffective, foolish, and wastes taxpayer money and time.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 02-12-2013 at 10:47 PM. Reason: corrected level of crime and adjusted comments accordingly
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minarchist View Post
    Blame for that rests with the anti-liberty fools. Blaming a fellow gun owner for violating an asinine, unconstitutional law shows weakness which you better believe that the Brady Bunch will exploit.



    Certainly not North Korea. Is there some rule against criticizing those who imitate the anti-SA tyrants ("OMG he took a gun into a SCHOOOOOOOL!!!!!111") if your post count is in the single digits?

    Firearms have been stigmatized enough. People who support the RKBA should be trying to reverse this, which does not entail acting as if the combination of "gun" with "school" is inherently bad.

    Yes, he violated a statute, which essentially every last person does, as it is impossible to know every single law on the books, so that is a rather weak angle (especially since this particular statute should never have been put on the books in the first place).
    No... you're welcome to post away. Gives us something to laugh about tonight.
    Maybe you could pound the podium with your shoe too!
    Last edited by peter nap; 02-12-2013 at 03:27 PM.

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    Skidmark his infraction of the law is a felony infraction, not a misdemeanor infraction (this despite the fact that he harmed no one, offered to harm no one, and claims to be oblivious to any malum prohibitum restriction).

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    But, you see, that's just the point.

    While the law may be both flawed and ineffective in preventing any actual harm to those at the schools, we have all (go read the forum rules) agreed that the way to addres that is by those lawful means in existence for changing the laws. Advocating for or endorsing someone's violation of the law is not supported - at least not publically.

    I find it difficult to believe that the person did not know that his action was illegal. As much as I "forget" certain things, I find myself reviewing the go/no-go status of my destinations both as I leave the house and as I travel during the day. I have met a few who knowingly gambled at not being found out to be violsating the law, but they took steps to reduce the possibility of being seen/discovered violating the law. From what little information has been made available it seems Mr. O'Berry OC'd into the school.

    While I agree that the law is both useless and harmful, I am reluctant to spend money defending someone who intentionally violated the law unless they specifically set out, like Ghandi or MLK, Jr. or many others, to challenge the law. I would be hard-pressed to consider donating to a fund for Rosa Parks, who never wanted or intended to challenge the law, but knowingly violated it for personal convenience. (That does nothing to reduce the import of the outcome of her criminal trial. It just defines the way I see things.)

    If you are going to stage a protest against the incarceration and criminal prosecution of Mr. O'Berry, I would suggest you do so in front of the Commonwealth Attorney's office rather than in front of the jail. The jailers did not make the decision to arrest him, and they will have nothing to do with bringing him to trial and seeking to convict him. (Additionally, there is public access to amenities at the CA's office but not at the jail. If you have never protested before you will not understand why acess to such is important.)

    Since the crime alleged is a misdemeanor http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1 the chance for jury nullification does not exist.

    That leaves us with convincing the General Assembly that the law is both ineffective, foolish, and wastes taxpayer money and time.

    stay safe.
    Thank you for the advice.

    Do you agree or disagree that a chorus of condemnation here for Mr. O'Berry could very easily come off as an internalization of the loathing that the gun control crowd has for us (whether or not any given individual participating in this chorus actually has internalized his loathing for us is beside the point, as my question relates to the perception thereof and not whether it actually exists)?

    If you agree with the preceding assertion, then do you agree or disagree that a perception of self-loathing by the Brady Bunch is analagous to the scent of blood for predators?
    Last edited by minarchist; 02-12-2013 at 03:44 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Oh, to be on the jury that gets this case!



    TFred

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    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No... you're welcome to post away. Gives us something to laugh about tonight.
    Maybe you could pound the podium with your shoe too!
    What is amusing about discussing the best way to defeat the enemy?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Oh, to be on the jury that gets this case!



    TFred
    Fat chance of that, I am sure the prosecution will ask questions of the potential jurors of their 2A stand.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Skidmark his infraction of the law is a felony infraction, not a misdemeanor infraction (this despite the fact that he harmed no one, offered to harm no one, and claims to be oblivious to any malum prohibitum restriction).
    That's true jmelvin, and it's a disturbing sign of the times. It hasn't been that long ago though, that the school principal would have told a parent that that was illegal, let him go, and forgotten the whole thing.

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    Given that the guy wasn't arrested til the next day, that's exactly what should've been done. Having this man in the prison system and wasting court time makes no sense at all (to me at least). There's certainly no justice going on here, just legal proceedings.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Skidmark his infraction of the law is a felony infraction, not a misdemeanor infraction (this despite the fact that he harmed no one, offered to harm no one, and claims to be oblivious to any malum prohibitum restriction).
    I sit, head down in shame, corrected. How I screwed that one up I do not know. I have gone back and adjusted my post to reflect the true nature of the matter.

    Thank you for correcting me.

    stay safe.
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