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Thread: Another Park Ban to Attack: Yelm

  1. #1
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Another Park Ban to Correct: Yelm

    Short notice. Created new post from South Sound thread.
    Godsdaddy:

    “I saw the ubiquitous “No Weapons” provision under Y.M.C. 9.68.040 and after a little digging, here is the text of that portion of the city code:

    9.68.040 Weapons and fireworks restricted. It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm, fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or shoot or fire any air gun, bow and arrow, or BB gun or use any slingshot in any park without the written consent of the city council. (Ord. 908 § 2, 2009; Ord. 213 § 11(D), 1977). From http://www.codepublishing.com/WA/yelm/


    The bolded/underlined portion is my edit, to highlight the portion I believe to be noncompliant with RCW 9.41.290 (preemption).

    I emailed Mayor Ron Harding [ronh@ci.yelm.wa.us] this morning regarding this, and will post up the reply (when/if I get one) here. Hopefully this doesn’t turn in to another “Oak Harbor”, but if it does then the next City Council meeting(s) are February 12th (short notice) and February 26th at 6PM, held in the Yelm Public Safety Building, 206 McKenzie Ave SE, Yelm, WA 98597.

    I have been to that park dozens of time, and have never noticed the sign (I’m not saying it was new, I just didn’t notice it). Another gentleman that was there walking his dog commented on my OC and pointed out the sign, saying that he CC’s, but had left it in his car because he thought the sign meant he couldn’t carry. I gave him a pamphlet, pointed out RCW 9.41.290 and briefly explained preemption, and told him I would be contacting the city about the matter and encouraged him to do the same. He thanked me and we parted ways.”



    golddigger14s:
    Here's the agenda:
    http://www.avcaptureall.com/Sessions...f-b6b7dae55ddb
    Public comment limited to three minutes, and five speakers.
    I should be able to make it. Strike this, my daughter has a job interview at 5:30 pm, and right now we are down to one car.
    Public Safety Building AKA The Police Dept.
    206 McKenzie Ave SE, Yelm WA 98597

    I was working on what to say, but if anybody wants to borrow some of my sentiments feel free:
    "Hi, my name is______________. I’m a retired US Army veteran. It has been brought to my attention that the parks in Yelm are posted “All Weapons Prohibited” YMC 9.68.040. This is in violation of state Preemption of cities, and municipalities passing laws that are more restrictive than state laws. The City of Seattle has already been overturned in court on this very same issue. After thorough review other cities have changed the rules for their parks as well, such as Lacey and Oak Harbor to name a couple. I am here to bring this issue to you attention so that the city of Yelm can also take action to remedy this matter in a timely fashion. As a father I try to do everything in my power to ensure not only my safety, but the safety of my children as well. Just like seatbelts, and fire extinguishers a gun is another tool in my kit to aid in that purpose."

    9.68.040 Weapons and fireworks restricted.
    It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm, fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or shoot or fire any air gun, bow and arrow, or BB gun or use any slingshot in any park without the written consent of the city council. (Ord. 908 § 2, 2009; Ord. 213 § 11(D), 1977).
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 07-09-2016 at 07:34 PM.
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    We should "correct" these things, not "attack" them.

    Aside from that, good spot, hopefully someone can get to that meeting to comment on this.

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    Thanks

    Thanks for starting a thread on this golddigger. I have no receieved a reply back from the good mayor yet, though I think I eventually will. I would love to attend the meeting tonight, but I have previous plans I cannot miss (hence the "short notice" part of my original post). I plan on being at the next meeting on the 26th, unless this matter is resolved before then. (I won't hold my breath.)

    Also, you can find the contact info for all the City Council members on the page(s) at the link below. Each member has their own page, select one from the pane on the left side of the page. If I don't hear back from the mayor by the end of the week, I will send the same email to each of the council members as I did to him. The City Clerk said the mayor was in the office this week, so I may stop by and chat with him in person if I get the chance later in the week.

    Yelm City Council => http://www.ci.yelm.wa.us/default.asp?dept=council

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    OK, let's shoot for the meeting on the 26th so that we can have the time to get organized.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Try walking before a full run, there are cities and counties that have been approached on updating their ordinances concerning preemption and moved ahead with out all the hoop la, try waiting for a response from your letter as it may well be all you need. Note one must follow through and ensure action is actually taken and if ignored then move ahead with more in force.

    You may want to contact SAF has contacted them as well, who knows it may already be in the works.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Positive news

    I recieved a response back from the City Manager, Ms Shelly Badger, regarding my inquiry. I will post the response when I get a chance, but the bottom line is that they know the code is outdated, and not in compliance with state law. They are working to amend it accordingly. I replied and thanked her for the response, and for working to correct this issue, and asked when we could expect to see the signs phyisically changed as well.

    Thanks for the suppport gents... fortunatley it looks like we won't need to "call in the Cavalry" on this one, but that's actually a good news story, IMHO.

    Carry on...

  7. #7
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update. I had the same experience with Lacey, they plan on changing their signs when needed for maintenance.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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  8. #8
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godsdaddy View Post
    ...but the bottom line is that they know the code is outdated, and not in compliance with state law. They are working to amend it accordingly. I replied and thanked her for the response, and for working to correct this issue...
    Good start. I know from experience in Kitsap County that you have to follow up. Ask some pointed questions such as when it will be on the agenda. Believe me, this is not a high priority issue for them. The code has not been in compliance for many years, and they have never done anything about it. They will try to placate you by telling you they are working on it, then nothing happens. If you are serious about this, you've got to keep working. It is never easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    Good start. I know from experience in Kitsap County that you have to follow up. Ask some pointed questions such as when it will be on the agenda. Believe me, this is not a high priority issue for them. The code has not been in compliance for many years, and they have never done anything about it. They will try to placate you by telling you they are working on it, then nothing happens. If you are serious about this, you've got to keep working. It is never easy.
    So very true. I remember how long you struggled with the county admin bldg before they finally removed the sign and got in compliance.

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    I'll be following up, in person, with the mayor next week. Eternal vigilance... cost of freedom... etc.

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    Update and closeout

    I just wanted to give a brief update and closeout to this thread. Last night (9 APR), the Yelm City Council met and voted on a measure to amend the city code to reflect state law in reference to firearms in city parks. I attended the meeting and addressed the council with a brief statement prior to the motion and vote on the measure. The council unanimously approved the measure, with one member abstaining from the vote. (Mike McGowan) I have attached a copy of the proposed (and approved) change, and the entire agenda can be seen at the link below.

    This measure had been under review since February of this year, and after meeting with the City Attorney and Yelm Police Chief, the City Manager decided to bring it before the council and recommend the change. I have been in communication with the City Manager throughout the process, and must say they were very proactive in resolving this issue once I brought it to their attention. It was simply a matter of the city code not being changed since 1977, despite the numerous changes in state law since that time.

    I was not planning on speaking at the meeting last night, however after speaking with Mayor Harding and Chief Stancil, I decided to address the council. While I often have to speak/brief in front of people at work (often times people who far outrank me), I typically opt to stay “out of the spotlight” in public matters because of the adverse affect “publicity” could have on my job, and I value my personal privacy. I felt strongly enough about this matter to speak however, and you can see the video at the link HERE. I begin speaking somewhere in the middle of the video (I will update with the exact time tonight, I cannot get the video to play at work). This was my first time speaking in a public forum (outside the military) in I don’t know how long, so please go easy on me!

    Only one member of the council questioned the change (Mr. McGowan), and as you can see from the video, he does not believe in our right to defend ourselves outside our homes. He repeatedly states he “doesn’t know why anyone feels the need to carry a… loaded weapon… around in the city park (sic)”. I believe I make our stance on the right (and responsibility) to defend ourselves and our families (and others, as the law allows) wherever we have a legal right to be.

    After the meeting I spoke with all of the council members except Mr. McGowan, who promptly left once the meeting was adjourned. I handed out a couple of pamphlets to some of the council members, and answered as many questions as I could. All of the council members, the Mayor, the City Manager, City Attorney and City Police Chief thanked me for speaking, and all are solidly pro-2A.

    I spoke at length with Chief Stancil prior to, and after, the meeting and he firmly believes in citizens carrying (open or concealed) for personal protection. At one point during the discussion of the proposed change to the city code, Mr. McGowan asked Chief Stancil if his officers would contact someone carrying in the city parks if there was a 911 MWAG call. Chief Stancil stated that his officers do not contact citizens for simple lawful carry, and unless they were warranting alarm (clarified his point as unholstering, threatening, menacing, etc.).
    Also in attendance at the meeting was an aide for WA State Rep. Paul Harris (House Minority Whip) who I also spoke with after the meeting. He thanked me for speaking and re-iterated Rep. Harris’ commitment to protecting the 2A rights of the citizens of WA.

    It was refreshing to see local government actually work, and in a proactive and timely manner, without the threat of lawsuits or other action to force the chance. Many thanks to the members here who have done the same thing in their communities… seeing you stand and speak motivated me to do the same. The depth of knowledge on this site is phenomenal, and I’m simply glad I was able to contribute to a small part of the 2A fight here in WA.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Well done.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Well done.

    Good stuff is around 28 minutes in the video.
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    Another Park Ban to Attack: Yelm

    Good job! Great to hear who supports the citizens rights and more importantly, expose who needs to be voted out.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Brian,

    Very well spoken and very well presented! Glad you were there for all of us!
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  16. #16
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quadruple ditto. I'm glad you remembered, and stayed on top of it. Very well done, couldn't have done better.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    You, Sir, are a fine example of a true Citizen. As you have demonstrated, Citizenship Is a Verb. An action word.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    For anyone else that encounters this problem..as I have...just not a parks ban, (it was other areas of non-compliance in Tonasket.) There was no active opposition, but that did not mean it happens immediately. First, you comment goes to the city attorney, then it gets scheduled for a public hearing, then it is voted on.

    My problem here in Tonasket is; they have a bunch of code that is out of date...not just firearms, so what I have stirred up is a code review for the whole of the city code, not just a RCW 9.41.300 compliance review. It's taking longer than I would like, but I have a promise from the mayor that it will be changed and all of my comments have been vetted by the city attorney and are correct. We'll see...they may need some more prodding.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    If there were some people OCing in this park I bet this would not have happened:
    http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/vand...lm-park/nXWG7/
    What say you now Mr. McGowan?
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 04-24-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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  20. #20
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Update:
    I just left the park after manning a booth for the Thurston County Emergency Operation Center during the family fun day. I was OCing, but I doubt many people saw it since I had my green safety vest that covered it somewhat. No issue, but the sign still has not been changed. I will have to send a reminder to the city.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  21. #21
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Wow, quick response and on the weekend:
    Charles,
    I was under the impression this was taken care of. I will look into it Monday.
    Mayor Harding

    Sent from my iPhone

    On Jul 9, 2016, at 4:32 PM,.com> wrote:

    Dear Mr. Harding,

    Back in 2013 it was brought to the city of Yelms attention that the signs in the park saying "no weapons were allowed" violated State Preemption. During a council meeting back then it was acknowledged, and agreed to fix it. I recently attended the Yelm Family Fun Day, and noticed the sign has not been fixed. I know times are hard, but even a piece of duct tape could fix it. Thank you in advance for your consideration.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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  22. #22
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    good job golddigger...

    ipse
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  23. #23
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Charles,
    Not yet my director has been on vacation but it's on my topic list for this week.
    I would expect it would take several days for me to understand why the signs are up and take any corrective action.
    Ron
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    If there were some people OCing in this park I bet this would not have happened:
    http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/vand...lm-park/nXWG7/
    What say you now Mr. McGowan?
    $15,000 ?? I completely remodeled 2 bathrooms for a 1/3rd of that ....

    These stupid signs are going to get people killed.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    $15,000 ?? I completely remodeled 2 bathrooms for a 1/3rd of that ....

    These stupid signs are going to get people killed.
    You would seem to be out of touch with the cost of repair/renovation.

    The city is getting more bang for their buck than you did.
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