Gun law Lawyer ?

Ezerharden · May 9, 2013

TheQ said:
I'm not in the business of teaching law or administrative procedures -- either for free or for profit.

I feel comfortable enough with my own understanding I'd probably handle my own personal CPL appeal proceeding. I don't intend to get in the business or practice if teaching others what I've learned thus far.

Sound dickish? Sorry. I've spent hundreds of hours in my own research and understanding. I have neither the time, energy, nor inclination to impart that into others.

Q isn't anyone's personal genie. =\

I wonder how much information you gained here at first, that others spent hundreds of hours learning. Just saying. And every time you cite a law here to someone that asks a question, you are in fact teaching them that law. Every time you advise someone how to proceed against a city ordinance you are teaching administrative procedure. Sorry if I sound "dickish" but I thought that is what this site was for, to teach others the laws so they don't get jammed up, to help them if they have questions about the laws. Guess I was wrong.

Rick H · May 9, 2013

casper said:
Does anyone have a name of a gun law Lawyer near Holland that could help me with a CPL appeal ? Does anyone know roughly what I'm going to have to spend ?

I'm not sure the reason for your denied permission slip but, I too was denied because
In my early years I was charged with two felonies but dropped one to a misdemeanor and
the other was dismissed. Now what I had to do was get the court records and emailed them
to the department of agriculture lady I was talking with , she then pulled up my application
and approved me right on the spot while i was talking to her on the phone and sent me mine
by next day mail which I got the very next day. Now the charges were in Michigan but the
permit Is in Florida. I hope that's the case for you as well

Ezerharden · May 9, 2013

Rick H said:
I'm not sure the reason for your denied permission slip but, I too was denied because
In my early years I was charged with two felonies but dropped one to a misdemeanor and
the other was dismissed. Now what I had to do was get the court records and emailed them
to the department of agriculture lady I was talking with , she then pulled up my application
and approved me right on the spot while i was talking to her on the phone and sent me mine
by next day mail which I got the very next day. Now the charges were in Michigan but the
permit Is in Florida. I hope that's the case for you as well

Nice to see some potentially useful information posted, thanks.

Bronson · May 9, 2013

28.425b

. . .

(13) Subject to subsections (10) and (14), the concealed weapon licensing board shall issue or deny issuance of a license within 45 days after the concealed weapon licensing board receives the fingerprint comparison report provided under subsection (10). If the concealed weapon licensing board denies issuance of a license to carry a concealed pistol, the concealed weapon licensing board shall within 5 business days do both of the following:

(a) Inform the applicant in writing of the reasons for the denial. Information under this subdivision shall include all of the following:

(i) A statement of the specific and articulable facts supporting the denial.

(ii) Copies of any writings, photographs, records, or other documentary evidence upon which the denial is based.

(b) Inform the applicant in writing of his or her right to appeal the denial to the circuit court as provided in section 5d.

. . .

It would seem that the first step would be finding out WHY you were denied so you can gather the relevant paperwork to refute their claims.

Bear in mind that if you appeal and the court finds your appeal "frivolous," i.e., documents/data show that you were clearly not eligible to receive a CPL under the law, that you will be required to pay all of the court & attorney fees of the concealed weapons licensing board.

28.425d

(1) If the concealed weapon licensing board denies issuance of a license to carry a concealed pistol, or fails to issue that license as provided in this act, the applicant may appeal the denial or the failure to issue the license to the circuit court in the judicial circuit in which he or she resides. The appeal of the denial or failure to issue a license shall be determined by a review of the record for error, except that if the decision of the concealed weapon licensing board was based upon grounds specified in section 5b(7) that portion of the appeal shall be by hearing de novo. Witnesses in the hearing shall be sworn. A jury shall not be provided in a hearing under this section.

(2) If the court determines that the denial or failure to issue a license was clearly erroneous, the court shall order the concealed weapon licensing board to issue a license as required by this act.

(3) If the court determines that the decision of the concealed weapon licensing board to deny issuance of a license to an applicant was arbitrary and capricious, the court shall order this state to pay 1/3 and the county in which the concealed weapon licensing board is located to pay 2/3 of the actual costs and actual attorney fees of the applicant in appealing the denial.

(4) If the court determines that an applicant's appeal was frivolous, the court shall order the applicant to pay the actual costs and actual attorney fees of the concealed weapon licensing board in responding to the appeal.

First, find out why you were denied. Proceed from there.

Bronson

TheQ · May 9, 2013

Ezerharden said:
I wonder how much information you gained here at first, that others spent hundreds of hours learning. Just saying. And every time you cite a law here to someone that asks a question, you are in fact teaching them that law. Every time you advise someone how to proceed against a city ordinance you are teaching administrative procedure. Sorry if I sound "dickish" but I thought that is what this site was for, to teach others the laws so they don't get jammed up, to help them if they have questions about the laws. Guess I was wrong.

Sure is. And I do that a lot. It's not my responsibility to teach any person how to handle their individual case though. No more than it's DrTodd's responsibility. He knows a lot yet why wasn't his name mentioned...or DanM, or Bronson.

TheQ · May 9, 2013

Ezerharden said:
Nice to see some potentially useful information posted, thanks.

He gave him some thoughts, not in "lesson in how to proceed with procedure and do it completely by himself", which is what was being asked if me -- DIFFERENCE!

Also, I shouldn't be volunteered. If I want to help and I see the thread and have time to offer thoughts -- I usually will. Don't volunteer me on my behalf though.

PS. I have training from undergrad also.

casper · May 9, 2013

Ezerharden said:
I wonder how much information you gained here at first, that others spent hundreds of hours learning. Just saying. And every time you cite a law here to someone that asks a question, you are in fact teaching them that law. Every time you advise someone how to proceed against a city ordinance you are teaching administrative procedure. Sorry if I sound "dickish" but I thought that is what this site was for, to teach others the laws so they don't get jammed up, to help them if they have questions about the laws. Guess I was wrong.

+1 and thank you.

casper · May 9, 2013

Ezerharden said:
Nice to see some potentially useful information posted, thanks.

+1.

casper · May 9, 2013

Thank you everyone for your help.

Ezerharden · May 9, 2013

TheQ said:
Sure is. And I do that a lot. It's not my responsibility to teach any person how to handle their individual case though. No more than it's DrTodd's responsibility. He knows a lot yet why wasn't his name mentioned...or DanM, or Bronson.

Maybe because the others you mentioned didn't post a response that said "I have the information but I don't want to share it"

TheQ · May 9, 2013

Ezerharden said:
Maybe because the others you mentioned didn't post a response that said "I have the information but I don't want to share it"

Maybe because they weren't called out by name. I was called out by name BEFORE I opened my mouth. I was replying to that when you inserted your own butthurt.

Ezerharden · May 9, 2013

TheQ said:
Maybe because they weren't called out by name. I was called out by name BEFORE I opened my mouth. I was replying to that when you inserted your own butthurt.

Well then maybe you should have just said "I don't feel comfortable advising on this matter" instead of citing the hardships you went through to obtain the information and using that as a justification to not share said information.

zigziggityzoo · May 9, 2013

Now Kids, play nice.

Oh, sorry, thought I was on the playground there for a second.

TheQ · May 9, 2013

Ezerharden said:
Well then maybe you should have just said "I don't feel comfortable advising on this matter" instead of citing the hardships you went through to obtain the information and using that as a justification to not share said information.

That would be a lie, I am perfectly comfortable with my competencies. I just don't want to/have time to

I don't lie to people just because it would sound nicer

casper · May 9, 2013

Guys please stop bickering about it. I just thought I could get some help with my situation. I'll take care of it myself. Thank you to all that gave advice. Some make you feel like (it's your problem, deal with it.) If we fight among ourselves, what chance do we have against the anti-gun folks ?

autosurgeon · May 9, 2013

Get an attorney that continues to be the best advice. If that means saving up then that is what you will have to do.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

Bronson · May 9, 2013

autosurgeon said:
Get an attorney that continues to be the best advice. If that means saving up then that is what you will have to do.

That's what I'd do.

At the very very LEAST you need to find out exactly, IN WRITING, why you were denied and compare it to the list of disqualifying offenses in 28.425b. If you do indeed have something on your record that would disqualify you then there's no point in consulting an attorney or attempting an appeal. You'll be out your $105.00, your attorney costs, and likely the attorney/court costs for the gun board.

If the reason they give you doesn't jibe with any of the listed disqualifying offenses you need to take that information to a lawyer for a consultation as zigziggityzoo suggested earlier. If the gun board won't give you that information then you'll need to retain a lawyer and he/she will get it for you.

Pay-to-play, that's how the world works.

Bronson

Bronson · May 9, 2013

TheQ said:
No more than it's DrTodd's responsibility. He knows a lot yet why wasn't his name mentioned...or DanM, or Bronson.

Haha! All I know is what I read in the laws. I am woefully ignorant when it comes to court or legal procedures. Which is why if I were in the OP's shoes I'd get an attorney. If you want to sail around the world you need the help of a sailor, not some guy who's good at reading maps.

Bronson

casper · May 9, 2013

There was nothing on the list to disqualify me, it was their call based on (incident) reports. It would be next to impossible to win.( according to one attorney) So I'll just open carry till the laws change for the better.

Venator · May 9, 2013

casper said:
There was nothing on the list to disqualify me, it was their call based on (incident) reports. It would be next to impossible to win.( according to one attorney) So I'll just open carry till the laws change for the better.

Or move to a better county.

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