casper
Guest
It seams like we have all these gun rights, but when we use them, law enforcement is there to try and nail us for something. Are we not on the same side ?
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Are we not on the same side ?
- Thread starter casper
- Start date
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
It seams like we have all these gun rights, but when we use them, law enforcement is there to try and nail us for something. Are we not on the same side ?
Some people seem to attract the wrong kind attention, either by design or ignorance.
The overwhelming majority of folks OC with no drama at all, others seem to live for the drama. Others are simply clueless about how their actions or appearance influence the average (unarmed) person.
There are some people who are so completely 'out there', by ignorance or intent, that I will avoid them at all costs.
Examine your motives, consider your steps. People are watching, and making judgments about us all. And, above all, don't be 'that guy', who intentionally baits LEOs, so they can post their pathetic videos on Youtube.....
Are you carrying for self defense, or ego?
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Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
Now, stand back & watch the 'It shouldn't matter' squad try to defend their poor PR skills....
Raggs
Regular Member
In theory it should not matter, in reality it most definitely does matter. If you are dressed in camo and carryin an AR and are not a member of active military maneuvers perhaps you are making people think negatively about gun owners. I personally will not open carry unless I am dressed fairly well and I do not mean a shirt and tie or a suit. I have only had one encounter with police in GR and it was not a big deal.
griffin
Regular Member
Yep.
DanM
Regular Member
It seams like we have all these gun rights, but when we use them, law enforcement is there to try and nail us for something. Are we not on the same side ?
I don't think any of the above posts have addressed what you actually posted.
LEOs in Michigan, generally, have "got the memo" on OC and your experiences normally will be 99.9% free of LEO interaction problems. Generally, you do not need to carry with you a fear that there will be many attempts to "nail" you. Or, as LEOs like to say to each other, "jam you up". Now, that being said, unfortunately due to there being rogue LEOs out there, it is incumbent upon OC'ers to treat LEO interactions cautiously. Be polite, and it's ok to respond to some questions, but you've got to know when to recognize a LEO is on a fishing expedition with you, and you need to politely say to the officer, "Sir, I've got business to take care of, so if you're not detaining me, I have to be moving along." And repeat that.
Most LEOs on the street consider legal gun carriers to be "on the same side" as them, with respect to their view of us as people who respect the laws they must enforce. Again, rookie or rogue officers are a different breed, but they don't represent most LEOs.
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
Well, we might be on 'their' side, but I can with confidence say that some of them are not on 'our' side.
1).. Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank
... and I believe there was a thread I replied to earlier, in much the same vein (which can't be found at this moment) with much the same "we carry to intimidate" from another department head.
1).. Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank
... and I believe there was a thread I replied to earlier, in much the same vein (which can't be found at this moment) with much the same "we carry to intimidate" from another department head.
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casper
Guest
Thanks Pard.
casper
Guest
One thing that gets me is when the leo says things like, do you think your cool walking around with a gun, or you think it's fun to scare people. Why do they have to be so sarcastic ? :banghead:
Ezerharden
Regular Member
Perhaps because they see you as a threat to their dominance, you know, only they are good enough to be armed. I am only speculating since I have never had that kind of negative interaction with a LEO in Michigan.
DanM
Regular Member
Some officers doing this may actually have a problem with OC, but most officers are doing what they call an "attitude test". Many times, people who are impaired or have some reason to fear police contact "flunk the attitude test", as the police say. Flunking the attitude test makes a LEO generally suspicious. They will usually continue the consensual encounter as long as the person lets them, attempting to see whether or not they develop some RAS or PC. They don't really have a problem with OC or you, they just want to see how you handle being stressed a little bit.
I'm not saying I'm OK with LEOs doing this, as it does come off as somewhat rude. But it's not personal most of the time . . . they are just seeing how a "person of interest" to them reacts.
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casper
Guest
Yeah, I thought of that too, but we already proved ourselves worthy by being legal to carry. Theres no reason to keep testing us, it's just not right.
DanM
Regular Member
Upon initial approach, the officer doesn't know you. All he knows is how you react to the attitude test. There is a reason for the attitude test as I explained above. Like I said, I'm not saying it's OK and the reason is good. Just that LEOs sometimes do it, it's mostly not done for personal reasons, and the best thing to do (if you choose to talk to the LEO) is to pass the attitude test.
I've encountered rude cops during OC and traffic stops. I know the frustration you feel, because I've felt it. The feeling, "I don't deserve this attitude from this guy." But what's made it easier to deal with is being educated that it's a tactic they use to detect bad guys, it's really nothing personal against me.
casper
Guest
The sad part is that it is not sarcasm. They ask that because that is how THEY feel about carrying a gun.
(This is not a rule-violating generalization; it only applies to those who would ask such a question.)
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
+1
And if you doubt the veracity of this claim, go peruse the comments over at policeone.com or officer.com. Literally, pick any article, read any comment. You won't have to search at all, unless you're looking for comments not displaying an us-vs-them, anti-citizen attitude.
For instance, I just did that. First article, first comment. Some guy tried to lunge at a cop with a sword. Nobody got hurt, guy ended up committed to a mental health institution. Apparently that's not good enough for our gestapo, however:
http://www.policeone.com/edged-weap...-Man-who-lunged-at-cop-with-sword-not-guilty/
Once you cross their line, you no longer have a right to a trial. You're fair game to be murdered.
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Big Gay Al
Michigan Moderator
I've been OCing for quite a while now, and I guess I'm one of those people who have so far, not been questioned by police as to why I OC. I've had very few encounters with them while not in uniform, so for the most part, I've never really been bothered by them. Other than when I lived in Lansing, the majority of my encounters with local police were while I was on my way home from work, or to work from home, so I was wearing a security uniform along with my pistol.
They never gave my weapon a 2nd glance after I informed them I was carrying. I guess I was just lucky, based on some of the stories I've heard, none of them ever took temporary custody of my pistol during any stop. Then again, I never got a ticket either, even though I probably deserved a few. In my experience, it pays to cooperate.
They never gave my weapon a 2nd glance after I informed them I was carrying. I guess I was just lucky, based on some of the stories I've heard, none of them ever took temporary custody of my pistol during any stop. Then again, I never got a ticket either, even though I probably deserved a few. In my experience, it pays to cooperate.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
In answer to the question. I think some officers still look at OC as something people do if they can't get a CPL... and the reason they can't get a CPL is because they have committed some serious crime. They also have been erroneously taught that a "man with a gun call" deserves certain specific responses. Although these assumptions are wrong and seriously outdated, they do remain. However, I think that, for the most part, very few will actually choose to follow up their beliefs with behavior. Most just take look at you and go on their way.
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