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  1. #1
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    new member

    new to site and the idea of oc. like most people i have always assumed it was illegal. just curious if anyone is in the gardendale area and has had any issues with oc.

  2. #2
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    Welcome, I am transplanted from Alabama.

    Click the link in my signature for access to DefendAlabama.com.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Welcome, I am transplanted from Alabama.

    Click the link in my signature for access to DefendAlabama.com.

    DefendAlabama.com is only one of three Alabama gun rights forums I have participated in Eye95. My experience leads me to the conclusion that all three advocate open carry. Your signature might leave some with a false impression.

    While there have been disagreements about how the forums are organized and administered, I believe the forum administrators and the members of all three of the forums share fundamental beliefs and goals about our right to keep and bear arms.

    There may be disagreements about forum organization and the approach to solving problems, but I believe it's best to recognize that we all share the same goals. I see no reason why we can't work together to accomplish those goals regardless of the forum we use to discuss them.

  4. #4
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    new member

    Nope. The reason for the signature is that DefendAlabama is the only one of the three not centrally controlled to the exclusion of dissenting ideas.


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  5. #5
    Regular Member Treborfoot's Avatar
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    Nope. The reason for the signature is that DefendAlabama is the only one of the three not centrally controlled to the exclusion of dissenting ideas.
    I am not sure what Eye means by this since I am one of the Founders of BamaCarry and BamaCarry is the only group of the three that is run by a board..

    The web master and person in control of defendalabama was the previous web master of BamaCarry and he hijacked the BamaCarry web site...

    When BamaCarry pulled the plug on him he stole confidential information from BamaCarry to send the following email to BamaCarry users pretending to be an BamaCarry administrator.....
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The following is an e-mail sent to you by an administrator of "Bama
    Carry!". If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments you
    find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the following
    address:

    BamaCarry2012@gmail.com

    Include this full e-mail (particularly the headers).

    Message sent to you follows:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I am sad to say that the first BamaCarry.org website will be coming down.
    This is only due to the current name it is labeled with and the the grief
    it has seen. I will maintain an archive for anyone who wants to read it.

    However; I am proud to say that through the death of this site a new site
    has emerged. http://defendalabama.com
    This new website is here to promote communication between individual
    grassroots groups through the State of Alabama. This website will never
    dictate policy to the groups, nor will it determine anything withing those
    groups. The website is a tool and nothing more. I am looking for coadmins
    and moderators if anyone is interested and any ideas on how the website may
    better serve the people.

    I encourage everyone to go out and start their own local groups. You know
    what is right for your area, don't let someone who doesn't live there and
    doesn't know tell you how to do things. What may be right for Northern
    Alabama may not be right for Mobile Alabama. We must keep the personal
    side of this movement alive. We can't loose the identity of who we are,
    who we fight with, or why we do it. Only by keeping the sense of family
    alive within each group can we hope to be effective. Once we loose this we
    become a power hungry giant that has lost sight of the goals that founded
    it. We must ensure that the people in these groups are the ones in control
    and that the ones in positions of leadership are capable of leading and
    must answer to the people, else we are no better than the ones we are
    fighting.


    --
    Thanks, The Management

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  6. #6
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    A board that was selected secretively, behind closed doors, and pointedly excluded at least one of the better-known gun rights activists in the state.

    As to the allegations concerning the webmaster; I know the young man and know him to be both honorable and truthful. His account of those proceedings concerning the website is quite different from what is painted here.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  7. #7
    Regular Member Treborfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    A board that was selected secretively, behind closed doors, and pointedly excluded at least one of the better-known gun rights activists in the state.

    As to the allegations concerning the webmaster; I know the young man and know him to be both honorable and truthful. His account of those proceedings concerning the website is quite different from what is painted here.
    The Board was not chosen secretly or behind any closed doors..The owners of the web site are entitled to select whom they wish to be on the board..The web master is not entitled to take intellectual property from the owners regardless of his grivences...The email I posted sent by this web master pretending to be a administrator of BamaCarry stands on its own..He doesn't look to honorable or truthful to me...

  8. #8
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    I stand by my comments.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Treborfoot View Post
    ...The owners of the web site...
    These words represent the precise problem with ALOC that BamaCarry promised to solve, but FAILED, as demonstrated by the mindset revealed with those words.

    DefendAlabama only has a placeholder until local organizations form and create a confederation of local organizations who will take over the forum.

    I would highly recommend NOT belonging to a State organization that has an "owner." DefendAlabama does not have an "owner" who will insist he has any right to do anything with "his" site!

    Hence my signature line.

    Most of you did not listen to me the first time I pointed out the danger. For the love of God, listen this time.
    Last edited by eye95; 02-15-2013 at 09:39 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    eye, we are listening. I am coordinator for the TriCounties chapter of DefendAlabama. We are steadily working on increasing our membership. Do notice my title. I direct nothing and own nothing. My sole interest is in coordinating the activities of other groups within our organization to assure that the efforts are complementary to each other and that we are not working to cross-purposes.

    Our whole effort is at the direction of the membership and not by any one person or small clique of people. So far, it seems to be working quite well.

    We will happily welcome new members and sincerely hope that new chapters are formed in other areas of the state. Those chapters, by the way, will be entirely self-governed. We hope they follow the model we are trying to perfect, but it is entirely up to their membership.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  11. #11
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    Oh, the folks at DefendAlabama have already listened. Too many are involved in the other two sites, the sites that claim to be "owned" and that claim special rights for those "owners."

    Until an organization is formed to take ownership of a site, it will have to be technically owned by an individual. However, that individual needs NOT to claim even the slightest privilege as that caretaker owner. Only ONE of the three sites meets that criteria, the one in my sig line, DefendAlabama.com.

    I cannot in good faith recommend either of the other two sites, as both have "owners" who claim some special rights as a result.

    "Everyone is equal. Only some are more equal than others." Those two sites are reminiscent of Animal Farm.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Treborfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Until an organization is formed to take ownership of a site, it will have to be technically owned by an individual. However, that individual needs NOT to claim even the slightest privilege as that caretaker owner. Only ONE of the three sites meets that criteria, the one in my sig line, DefendAlabama.com
    What's the hold up with forming this organization and when one is formed who is going to be in control?

    This is what the owner of defendalabama said..

    To support this idea I have started a website, http://defendalabama.com to serve as a central communications point. It will be structured similarly to this one except each group, if they wish can have a section all to themselves if they wish. This new web site will NOT serve as a guiding figure or an organization. It will only serve as a communications tool for these groups of people.
    Isn't that odd......This is exactly the way the BamaCarry site is set up and was the original intent.

    EYE I don't mind anyone not liking BamaCarry...But get the facts straight..defendalabama was never intended to be turned over to any group . The owner of defendalabama own words dispute what you claim...You probably need to adjust the sights on that sig...

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    Got it right

    Eye and Retired hit it right on the nail..It seems that with the two other groups it comes down to who is in charge rather than the subject we signed on for...if more time were spent on OUR rights rather then on
    political bull crap we would be better off.


    wtf

    BIGDAWG

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treborfoot View Post
    ...dEYE I don't mind anyone not liking BamaCarry...But get the facts straight..defendalabama was never intended to be turned over to any group . The owner of defendalabama own words dispute what you claim...You probably need to adjust the sights on that sig...
    My facts are straight. All one has to do is look further up in this very thread to see someone claiming ownership of BamaCarry, and therefore asserting privilege. That is the exact mistake that ALOC made and killed it. Relinquish control of the site to a membership organization, and I will support it. Until then, BamaCarry has simply become another ALOC.

    But, that is how it usually is when tyrants are deposed. Another one rises up who thinks he has a better way to be a despot. There are no good despots. Only good leaders who fully recognize that the true power remains with those who allow him to lead.

    Once again, I have been through this once with ALOC. The "leadership" and the people there wouldn't listen. I was later proved to be 100% correct. I see the same thing happening at BamaCarry. Will the people (and the "leadership") listen this time?

    I would love to see BamaCarry and DefendAlabama come together under a membership-led model. Until then (and I don't see it happening), I will have to support the only group in Alabama that is actually promoting grassroots activity: DefendAlabama.com.


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  15. #15
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    Apparently there is someone who owns the website domain for this forum.

    Someone wrote rules for particiption, including this one:

    (12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.


    Eye95, I've enjoyed sharing opinions with you in the past, but this opinion of your seems to be unreasonable and counterproductive to the overall movement. To be honest, I dont' understand your point. A forum without proper administration invites caos and confusion.

  16. #16
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    new member

    What is counterproductive is one person, or two people, hijacking the movement because he (or they) "own" the website. That killed ALOC, caused BamaCarry, ruined BamaCarry, and brought about DefendAlabama. My goal is to wake people up to demand ownership in the movement, to take it back from the folks who would "own" it.

    BTW, the "owner" of ALOC insists that ALOC is not the movement; it is just a website. Therefore, nothing I can say about it could possibly be "bashing" a gun-rights group. The current "ownership" of BamaCarry has made the self-same point in this very thread!

    They can't have it both ways. Either I can't bash them because they are gun rights groups, but then they are gun rights groups that are "owned" by an individual or two; or they are simply message boards, which are legitimately "owned," and we can bash the hell out of them.

    Again, though, I am bashing nothing. I am pointing out how a gun rights group should be formed in Alabama, and which ones are not following that model and, therefore, should not be supported.

    Folks, the only group in Alabama that is not "owned" by an individual (it is just being caretaken for the moment, as BamaCarry had at one time promised) is DefendAlabama.com. If you want to grow a grassroots movement, that is the one to support.


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  17. #17
    Regular Member Treborfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Folks, the only group in Alabama that is not "owned" by an individual (it is just being caretaken for the moment, as BamaCarry had at one time promised) is DefendAlabama.com. If you want to grow a grassroots movement, that is the one to support.

    <o>
    So what you are saying is a group of people can come into defendalabama, call for a vote and then take over the web site and the current CARETAKER will then hand over the keys...

    Do you really expect anyone will believe that?

  18. #18
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    No. Please do not put words in my mouth. You have seen me get very nasty about people doing that. I have too much respect for you to get harsh now, but putting words in my mouth is not something that I will allow.

    We are working towards forming the local groups. When that happens, they can form a confederation. Either DefendAlabama, or another site, will become the Internet presence of that confederation. If that site is DefendAlabama, I do expect that the current owner of the name would relinquish the domain name to the confederation. In the interim, I expect that he will not try to control things--as drove me and others away from both previous sites.

    That is what I am saying.


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  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Is this about the OP's question or the difference/sameness of Alabama's RKBA groups?

    Maybe I missed something.........reminding all of Forum Rules #8 and #12.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Grapeshot, I apologize for my participation in this. You are entirely right, sir, and I was wrong in making my comments. I will be sure that does not occur again on my part.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  21. #21
    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: new member

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    No. Please do not put words in my mouth. You have seen me get very nasty about people doing that. I have too much respect for you to get harsh now, but putting words in my mouth is not something that I will allow.

    We are working towards forming the local groups. When that happens, they can form a confederation. Either DefendAlabama, or another site, will become the Internet presence of that confederation. If that site is DefendAlabama, I do expect that the current owner of the name would relinquish the domain name to the confederation. In the interim, I expect that he will not try to control things--as drove me and others away from both previous sites.

    That is what I am saying.


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    I've seen you get "very nasty" with lots of people on here. But it's all just words in space...how about you dump the petty politics and focus your energies on the antis that are doing everything they can think of to strip our rights. And try working with the people that are on your team, not against them.

    Good grief!

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  22. #22
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    I do. When people are dishonest with me, such as misrepresenting what I have to say, and when folks jump into the middle of a convo just to be insulting (kinda nasty for no reason in itself!), such as what you just did. Piss off.

    Nasty enough for you?

    Because of my respect for the poster to whom I was replying, I cut him some slack and was blunt, but not nasty. You have earned no such respect yet. He has.

    Moving on back to the discussion of two "owned" boards and one grassroots group.


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  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I apologize to the OP of this thread for the redirection of the conversation away from his question.

    Unfortunately, this thread has become a trainwreck of personal, internal opinions of various groups for other than their resistance to OC. That being a violation of our forum rules.

    Locking it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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