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Thread: ministerium für staatssicherheit now teaming up with ATF?

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    ministerium für staatssicherheit now teaming up with ATF?

    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Yeah, I got explosives ... in my pants!

    Ha .... well they would only be able to do this to a small # of folks before they start getting pinged by folks who still have guns (and this should also include you because you don't store ALL your guns at one location, do you?)

    You can get new guns...better guns...bigger guns and now you would be a pissed off guy with a reason to use your guns. Or start making chemical or biological weapons ...

    (Plus this is not the way it would be done ... it would be done Waco-style)

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    DHS was involved because this was an import tax matter. Customs is part of DHS.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    There seems to be information emerging that the "by the book" table-top FFL was not quite so "by the book".

    http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2...investigating/

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511286

    http://www.infowars.com/department-o...gun-collector/

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=700648

    and so on.

    What strikes me about this is that the police did exactly as "we" have for years been suggesting as the alternative for dynamic entry raids in Ninja suits - stopping/seizing the person of interest in a safe manner away from the location to be searched, bring them to the location to be searched, and conduct the search without using flashbangs and battering rams or even shooting dogs. Now that they have done that, everybody is all up in arms.

    The feds - many different federal agencies - for years, suspected him of doing stuff he should not do. They could not catch him in an overt act of doing what he should not do, so they arranged to scoop up anything that might be a record of his doing something he should not do. And everybody is all up in arms.

    I am by no means suggesting that this was a textbook example of how it should be done. There are, to be sure, many outright and egregious flaws in the execution of the warrant. But the level of "outrage" seems to be excessive.

    Or someone couls explain to me why my viewpoint is not supportable.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Re: ministerium für staatssicherheit now teaming up with ATF?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    Or someone couls explain to me why my viewpoint is not supportable.

    stay safe.
    I think you're right. Of course, he didn"t actually do anything wrong. He may have disobeyed some unconstitutional "laws" but that's it.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I think you're right. Of course, he didn"t actually do anything wrong. He may have disobeyed some unconstitutional "laws" but that's it.
    And he will get his chance in court to convince someone (judge or jury) that the laws are in fact unconstitutional.

    Does anybody remember the case in Florida or Georgia iirc where the ATF/task force executed a search warrant at some farm "compound" and ended up on-scene for several days before completing the search? What stuck with me about that was that they followed chain of evidence procedures with the agent coming on shift signing for receipt of everything collected to that point that was under the control of the agent going off shift. Again iirc it took them only something like 6 hours to do the actual searching but they spent days completing the physical inventory before allowing anything to be moved off the property to their labs/warehouse/evidence locker. Somehow I annot remember if there was an outcry about how meticulously they acted.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I am not sure the issue is the execution of the warrant, if the few details gleaned from the provided links are accurate, but perhaps it is the warrant it self that should be the issue. A judge will need to decide.

    I find it odd that the "how" is of more interest to some than the why. What has piqued the feds interest regarding Mr. Adams? Mr. Adams seems to be a firearms "fixture" in that part of the country and apparently has been so for many many years? Why the feds and not NM?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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