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Police shoot and kill suspect after K-9 is stabbed

marshaul

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Fairfax County, Virginia
It's sickening really. Policeone is really a disgusting cesspit.

So, let's get this clear. Our dogs, who we keep as pets and for self-defense, are expendable targets, to be shot on the slightest provocation in the name of "officer safety", even within our own homes.

Your dogs, who you keep for aggressive assaults on the rights of citizens (i.e. fourth amendment circumvention), are "officers" who should have an elevated status under law.

And this makes sense in what world?




For the record: Murder is murder. It should not be a greater crime to murder a police officer than it would be to murder any one of us.

And it should never be murder to kill any dog.
 
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Jeff. State

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Aug 29, 2012
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usa
It's sickening really. Policeone is really a disgusting cesspit.

So, let's get this clear. Our dogs, who we keep as pets and for self-defense, are expendable targets, to be shot on the slightest provocation in the name of "officer safety", even within our own homes.

Your dogs, who you keep for aggressive assaults on the rights on citizens (i.e. fourth amendment circumvention), are "officers" who should have an elevated status under law.

And this makes sense in what world?




For the record: Murder is murder. It should not be a greater crime to murder a police officer than it would be to murder any one of us.

And it should never be murder to kill any dog.


Check some of their other stories, especially Dorner. Any cop that dares question the official line is immediately attacked. Sensible, reasonable questions asked, and they are accused of not even being cops.

Good THINKING cops seem to not be tolerated.
 

Citizen

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Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
It's sickening really. Policeone is really a disgusting cesspit.

So, let's get this clear. Our dogs, who we keep as pets and for self-defense, are expendable targets, to be shot on the slightest provocation in the name of "officer safety", even within our own homes.

Your dogs, who you keep for aggressive assaults on the rights of citizens (i.e. fourth amendment circumvention), are "officers" who should have an elevated status under law.

And this makes sense in what world?




For the record: Murder is murder. It should not be a greater crime to murder a police officer than it would be to murder any one of us.

And it should never be murder to kill any dog.

Animal Farm, where it was the elitist pigs who declared, "All animals are equal; but some animals are more equal than others."

Just re-read post #39 with that in mind.
 
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Citizen

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When it's been proven that dogs can detect the differences in odors and the fact that it gave a positive when the handler asked for it and not when the odor was present, then it's lying.

C'mon guys. It was a rhetorical device. Nobody is really suggesting a police dog should be held liable for perjury for a false alert. At least I hope nobody is really saying that.

The dog just wants to please his master. Hang the cop for perjury on an induced false alert, but not the dog. We all know...a certain barnyard animal is at least as smart, and sometimes smarter, than a dog.
 

Freedom1Man

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Greater Eastside Washington
C'mon guys. It was a rhetorical device. Nobody is really suggesting a police dog should be held liable for perjury for a false alert. At least I hope nobody is really saying that.

The dog just wants to please his master. Hang the cop for perjury on an induced false alert, but not the dog. We all know...a certain barnyard animal is at least as smart, and sometimes smarter, than a dog.

Well then put the handler on the stand for perjury or stop using dogs to violate our rights.
 

Citizen

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Well then put the handler on the stand for perjury or stop using dogs to violate our rights.

'Zactly.

Or, even better. Produce a video and embarrass the tar out of the whole department. Last year, an (Ohio?) cop induced a false alert and searched a clean car. The cop even accused the driver of having small bits of MJ flakes on the floorboard carpet. The cop's problem was he didn't realize he was doing this to a film producer--nature documentaries or some such, not big hollywood films. The producer got hold of the dashcam footage or something and made a short professionally-done video that included footage of the cop playing his game. Ho, ho, ho.

Its on youtube. I forget the names and so forth. Try police dog false alert.

Of course, this one never made it to perjury charges against the cop because the cop didn't arrest the guy and there was never any trial for the cop to perjure himself. The trick is to catch them conclusively after they perjure themselves.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Police dog charged with perjury... A translator may be needed. That is interesting, however.

I said it to make a point.

You have a right to face your accuser. The dog would be the one making the accusation and the cop is following up on that based on a supposedly credible witness. I would love to see the witness statement filed by the dog to give the officer cause to get a warrant to search.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Seriously? They can sniff for drugs that are hidden, guess what, don't have drugs and they won't smell anything! and can also find people running away from police and are not lethal. What isn't legitimate about that?

Smell anything there or not they will give false alerts.

http://www.nevergetbusted.com/unive...rtified-police-dogs-to-false-alert-200-times/

K9 False Alerts

The accuracy of drug- and explosives-sniffing dogs is affected by human handlers’ beliefs, possibly in response to subtle, unintentional cues, UC Davis researchers have found.

The study, published in the January issue of the journal Animal Cognition, found that detection-dog teams erroneously “alerted,” or identified a scent, when there was no scent present more than 200 times — particularly when the handler believed that there was scent present.

“It isn’t just about how sensitive a dog’s nose is or how well-trained a dog is,” says Lisa Lit, a postdoctoral fellow in the Department of Neurology and the study’s lead author. “There are cognitive factors affecting the interaction between a dog and a handler that can impact the dog’s performance.”

And it turns out, these factors can be even more important than the sensitivity of a dog’s sniffer.
 
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Citizen

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Seriously? They can sniff for drugs that are hidden, guess what, don't have drugs and they won't smell anything! and can also find people running away from police and are not lethal. What isn't legitimate about that?

That's actually not true. Do a quick search for "false alerts". You'll find that dogs 1) do false alert on their own, and that 2) some handlers deliberately induce false alerts to create a pretext for a search.

Also, police dogs don't have to be literally lethal in order to be classified as lethal force. All they need to do is be capable of causing grave bodily injury. Torn arteries, punctured testicles needing amputation,... And, all that assumes the dog does not break his training. No reason at all a police dog might not break his training and go for your throat once you're down. Dogs are predators. Nature gave them those teeth to kill their prey. They are absolutely capable of causing grave bodily injury.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Dogs bite for three reasons, fear, predatory, and trained. Fear the dog usually bites and retreats, both predatory and trained there is no fear on the dogs part. They will kill if not stopped. In this case the handler released his dog into a situation where he did not have control. The suspect was within his rights to kill this dog, and the handler had no right to shoot him out of revenge/anger. There is court system for punishing those accused of crimes, not street justice. The police officer was a idiot for releasing his dog into a unknown situation, that he had no control.

I have been mauled, not just a bite by a dog. I love dogs, but any threatening dog that gets near me is dead, unless they turn tail and back off. I had another incident as a child with a police dog that had got out of his pen. I only survived without injury because a rather large feral wolf/St Bernard mix killed him as he came at me. I was knocking on the door of the sleeping policemen to collect paper bill. The policeman actually tried to shoot the wild dog but missed, probably because I was kicking him. It was a different time and he actually got suspended for discharging his firearm and NOT having control of his dog. He was never allowed a dog again. Downside he cancelled his paper subscription, and his wife was hot.

Again I will stop any threatening dog, no matter who is the handler or if there is a handler. If they do not control their dog they are a threat too. I will never be mauled again, I would rather die than go through that. Dogs are lethal force.
 

Freedom1Man

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That's actually not true. Do a quick search for "false alerts". You'll find that dogs 1) do false alert on their own, and that 2) some handlers deliberately induce false alerts to create a pretext for a search.

Also, police dogs don't have to be literally lethal in order to be classified as lethal force. All they need to do is be capable of causing grave bodily injury. Torn arteries, punctured testicles needing amputation,... And, all that assumes the dog does not break his training. No reason at all a police dog might not break his training and go for your throat once you're down. Dogs are predators. Nature gave them those teeth to kill their prey. They are absolutely capable of causing grave bodily injury.

Well friend, lets start in your neck of the woods.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/02/police-dog-named-bono-plays-by-own-rules
The Virginia State Police has at least one very dirty cop: a K-9 pooch named "Bono" that has an uncanny ability to detect illegal drugs. Especially when there aren't any present.

The four-legged crime fighter working for the Virginia State Police has been on a hot streak, detecting drugs nearly every time he’s on the job. In reality, however, illegal narcotics were found just 22 times of the 85 ‘alerts’ by the dog.

http://blog.norml.org/2011/02/04/drug-dogs-false-alert-over-200-times-in-uc-davis-study/
http://blog.sfgate.com/pets/2011/02...drug-sniffing-dogs-performance/#ixzz1D2nQC9Ir

The study, published in the January issue of the journal Animal Cognition, found that detection-dog teams erroneously “alerted,” or identified a scent, when there was no scent present more than 200 times — particularly when the handler believed that there was scent present.

The dog-handler teams conducted two separate, five-minute searches of each room. When handlers believed their dogs had indicated a target scent, an observer recorded the location indicated by handlers. All of the teams searched the rooms in a different order.

Although there should have been no alerts in any of the rooms, there were alerts in all of them. And more alerts occurred at the target locations indicated by human suggestion (red construction paper) than at locations of increased dog interest (sausages and tennis balls).



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/..._1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog
Drug-sniffing dogs can give police probable cause to root through cars by the roadside, but state data show the dogs have been wrong more often than they have been right about whether vehicles contain drugs or paraphernalia.

The dogs are trained to dig or sit when they smell drugs, which triggers automobile searches. But a Tribune analysis of three years of data for suburban departments found that only 44 percent of those alerts by the dogs led to the discovery of drugs or paraphernalia.


______


I would have to agree with Citizen, and then rebuke him for not noticing the fact I made the same point earlier, although with fewer story links.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I would have to agree with Citizen, and then rebuke him for not noticing the fact I made the same point earlier, although with fewer story links.

All of us have made our various points before. Some folks just can't be bothered to actually consider or rebut the points being made, and prefer to spout their preformed conclusions.

Oh, and the next time I hear someone say, in reference to some asinine malum prohibitum offense with a whole slew of side-effects harming our other rights, "don't be guilty of X and you have nothing to fear/hide!", I'm going to puke in my mouth. Or all over them.
 

Freedom1Man

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Greater Eastside Washington
SNIP
Oh, and the next time I hear someone say, in reference to some asinine malum prohibitum offense with a whole slew of side-effects harming our other rights, "don't be guilty of X and you have nothing to fear/hide!", I'm going to puke in my mouth. Or all over them.

Save your self, aim for covering them with the vomit.

If we are supposed to have nothing to hide, then why does everyone get upset when I offer to walk around naked? Why are there laws requiring the wearing of clothing?
 

Citizen

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Joined
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18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Seriously? They can sniff for drugs that are hidden, guess what, don't have drugs and they won't smell anything! and can also find people running away from police and are not lethal. What isn't legitimate about that?

My, my. What a timely article about police dogs and searches from a Loyola law professor: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2201833

The gist is that police have incentives to use unreliable detection dogs, including false alerts that lead to finding cash which is then seized under unconstitutional civil forfeiture laws.

Also:
"A positive canine alert cloaks an officer’s decision to search
with both a suspicion of criminal activity and an appearance of impartiality
that can cover for other, more insidious human
motivations: financial gain, and in some cases, racial bias. Even
assuming that most police officers are high-minded individuals
who serve their communities in good faith, drug-detection dogs
react to subtle, or even subconscious, messages from their canine
handlers." (footnote at 67)"


You may have to fiddle around a bit to get it to download. I had some trouble, but finally got it from the SSRN button that should appear at the top of the page after you click "download this paper" on the far right of the first screen.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
C'mon guys. It was a rhetorical device. Nobody is really suggesting a police dog should be held liable for perjury for a false alert. At least I hope nobody is really saying that.

The dog just wants to please his master. Hang the cop for perjury on an induced false alert, but not the dog. We all know...a certain barnyard animal is at least as smart, and sometimes smarter, than a dog.
A dog is destroyed, via court order, because its "owner" did not properly restrain/train or mis-trained the animal. When a police dog "breaks the law" it too must, as should its handler, be subject to the full force of the law. But, we are a sentimental society where dogs are concerned.
 
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