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Thread: Story about government 1.6 Billion round ammo buy

  1. #1
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    Story about government 1.6 Billion round ammo buy

    http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-secur...190840538.html

    Do the math.

    1. "Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year."

    750 million rounds, divided by 70,000 LEOs, divided by 5 years equals 2,142 rounds fired by EACH officer during annual training.

    Is anyone actually stupid enough to believe these lies????

    2. "ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:
    —450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition
    —40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds
    —176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract
    —25,000 blank rounds"

    For what? They sure as Hell didn't use them. They are NOT in a war, and the US Army didn't fire that many rounds in Afghanistan last year.

    Somebody is lying!

    3. "The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow point bullets.

    Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency's assistant inspector general for external relations, said those bullets were for the Social Security inspector general's office, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes."

    295 Social Security "agents" are all going to fire 585 rounds each per year???

    On what planet? Sure as Hell ain't Earth!

    Only SWAT teams fire anywhere near that many rounds per person, per year. Most law enforcement officers fire once or twice a year and only 100-200 rounds then.

    Looks like the "media" swallowed that story "hook, line and sinker"!

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    I'm not saying your concern is unwarranted but... 2142 rounds a year = piss poor training. The civilian one day training classes I've attended required 500 round and I used 'em all.

    This country needs more ammunition manufacturers!! The feds are running the price up!

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Story about government 1.6 Billion round ammo buy

    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    I'm not saying your concern is unwarranted but... 2142 rounds a year = piss poor training. The civilian one day training classes I've attended required 500 round and I used 'em all.

    This country needs more ammunition manufacturers!! The feds are running the price up!
    I agree, that's not a lot of rounds to go through in a year. Less than 200 rounds a month? Not a lot of practice...
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    It gets better

    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    I agree, that's not a lot of rounds to go through in a year. Less than 200 rounds a month? Not a lot of practice...
    LEOs in the state of Virginia at some agencies fire less than 200 a year. Yes, I said A YEAR !!!!

    DCJS requirements are not worth talking about. Most individuals that open carry fire much more than the cops.

    Or did until all the ammo disappeared.

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    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    the volume itsself isn't too surprising. the part that is often being overlooked though is that they are not buying 1.6 billion target/practice/training rounds, they are buying 1.6 billion Gold Dot Hollow Point rounds; duty rounds. they BETTER not be using gold dots for training, they cost 4-5 times as much as practice/training rounds, which means they are intentionally neglecting cost factor, and are a huge problem to the national deficit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    the volume itsself isn't too surprising. the part that is often being overlooked though is that they are not buying 1.6 billion target/practice/training rounds, they are buying 1.6 billion Gold Dot Hollow Point rounds; duty rounds. they BETTER not be using gold dots for training, they cost 4-5 times as much as practice/training rounds, which means they are intentionally neglecting cost factor, and are a huge problem to the national deficit.

    http://www.alt-market.com/articles/1...tion-purchases

    This article is to outline purchases by the Department of Human resources since August 2002, a ten year span. The Department of Homeland Security was created by then President Bush as a preventative measure from further terror attacks on American soil. And since its inception, has been fodder for skeptics and fuel for those demanding a smaller, unintrusive government.

    The last chart provides the chilling breakdown of just how much ammunition was requested. The grand total? A mere 1.88 BILLION rounds ordered in less than eight years time. Oddities were discovered during this examination. A solicitation for an emergency allotment of 18,000,000 rounds of .40 S&W ammunition was requested to cover a shortfall of until December of 2009, but no major purchase could be found until December of 2010.

    "Justification for Other Than Full and Open Competition to purchase an “interim supply” of 18,000,000 rounds of .40 Smith & Wesson (S&W) Caliber 135 grain ammunition to bridge the gap in inventory until long term Indefinite Delivery / Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contracts can be put in place. Contract awarded to Federal Cartridge Company of Anoka, MN"

    This also provides justification for such large numbers of ammunition purchases, ie, training. However, in order to be more fiscally sound, the ammunition should be a ball type, or full metal jacket, not a jacketed hollow point, where the cost would be anywhere from two to five times less expensive.

    To put this in very simple terms: in the 8 years, 5 months, 23 days that have elapsed since the first ammunition order,

    7 rounds every second would need to be shot in order to use every last round ordered as of today.
    That would be 5.9 rounds per American.
    For every letter in the King James Bible, 608 rounds.
    If you were to put the ammunition in the small 50 round box of .45 ACP, it would be approximately 496,382 cubic feet, or 63 Olympic sized swimming pools.


    Below you will find the lists of solicitations, hyper linked to their pages located at http://www.fbo.gov. The following filters were used:

    US Coast Guard and Secret Service were not accounted for. The USCG rarely requested ammunition, and the Secret Service were mainly “Award Only” notices. No amounts of ammunition could be obtained.
    Any “Award Notice” only entries were omitted due to the lack of needed information.
    Last edited by zack991; 02-15-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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    500 rounds a month is a low figure for training. While 2400 seems high most departments should be firing at least 100 rounds per month plus the duty ammo carried. Seems to me if there was a grand scheme they would be keeping the ammo purchase secret.

    To be honest I think they are stock piling just like everybody else is.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 02-15-2013 at 10:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    500 rounds a month is a low figure for training. While 2400 seems high most departments should be firing at least 100 rounds per month plus the duty ammo carried. Seems to me if there was a grand scheme they would be keeping the ammo purchase secret.

    They have been since they have been getting more heat about their ammo purchases. The Department of Homeland Security has redacted information relating to the quantity of bullets it is buying following a controversy concerning the agency’s purchase of over a billion rounds of ammo, which many fear is a sign the federal government is preparing for civil unrest in the United States.



    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...tabmode=list&=

    Orginal PDF file with black out order.
    https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=4c...82beee2fc6629d




    Despite the fact that documents are only supposed to be redacted if authorized by Congress or for national security reasons, a solicitation posted on the FedBizOpps website yesterday concerning ammunition purchases made by the DHS on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) contains numerous blacked out sections.



    The Department of Homeland Security’s decision to black out sections of the document, including the number of bullets being purchased, is likely to be related to a massive controversy which has snowballed over the last few weeks pertaining to concerns as to why the federal agency has purchased well over a 1 billion rounds of bullets and close to being 2 billion rounds.
    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative...y-2452364.html
    Last edited by zack991; 02-15-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    They have been since they have been getting more heat about their ammo purchases.



    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...tabmode=list&=

    Orginal PDF file with black out order.
    https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=4c...82beee2fc6629d

    The Department of Homeland Security has redacted information relating to the quantity of bullets it is buying following a controversy concerning the agency’s purchase of over a billion rounds of ammo, which many fear is a sign the federal government is preparing for civil unrest in the United States.



    Despite the fact that documents are only supposed to be redacted if authorized by Congress or for national security reasons, a solicitation posted on the FedBizOpps website yesterday concerning ammunition purchases made by the DHS on behalf of Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) contains numerous blacked out sections.



    The Department of Homeland Security’s decision to black out sections of the document, including the number of bullets being purchased, is likely to be related to a massive controversy which has snowballed over the last few weeks pertaining to concerns as to why the federal agency has purchased well over a 1 billion rounds of bullets and close to being 2 billion rounds.
    IF and it is a big if you are right and they are preparing for civil war, they then must not have confidence in the military being on their side, as they can always get the ammo from them for rifles, which will be the primary weapon in a war. So lack in confidence of the military backing them up is a good sign for the citizens. If the military was to honor the constitution their ammo purchase will not mean jack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IF and it is a big if you are right and they are preparing for civil war, they then must not have confidence in the military being on their side, as they can always get the ammo from them for rifles, which will be the primary weapon in a war. So lack in confidence of the military backing them up is a good sign for the citizens. If the military was to honor the constitution their ammo purchase will not mean jack.
    I believe they are getting ready for civil unrest either due to a complete collapse of the US financial system or another major trigger that will cause people into the streets. I forgot to include the inks for that text which is not mine below the img. Link has been added. Well as for civil war I am not sure of as much as they are stocking up for something and its not just training.
    Last edited by zack991; 02-15-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I believe they are getting ready for civil unrest either due to a complete collapse of the US financial system or another major trigger that will cause people into the streets. I forgot to include the inks for that text which is not mine below the img.
    They don't need ammo for civil unrest, and I doubt they would use it for that. That would turn even the progressives against them.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    When our country hits rock bottom due to an economic collapse, which a number of far better educated economist experts have said we will see in our lifetime. Simply that all civility will go right out the window. It will look like the LA riots, but this will be over the entire USA instead of just LA. DHS is going to need every round they bought to try and contain any such law and order, people are going to be so tired of the nonsense coming out of DC who knows what will happen.
    Last edited by zack991; 02-15-2013 at 11:04 PM.
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    Story about government 1.6 Billion round ammo buy

    The economy will collapse. The Nasdaq and other barometers are rising but unemployment is also. Eventually the bond bubble will burst.

    Time.

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    Who are these anti- American companies who are selling all this ammo to the govt? If on one hand we laud those companies who are refusing to do business with the govt. aren't we sending mixed signals by not condenming businesses that still have dealings with the govt.?

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    Lightbulb 2 birds one stone?

    Well who knows if they are up to no good? Only time well tell. However the mere mention of gun control by the Obama administration has sent the firearms industry/market into a frenzy with shortages, price gouging, and hoarding to the point even home re-loaders cannot find components.

    Now we have to say one thing for the anti's - they learn quick. All they really have to do is to keep supplies short & drive prices through the roof & they have a basically made the guns of millions of Americans useless. No ammo, no threat from the peasants..... What better way to keep a society unarmed then to buy all the ammo?

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    its not them, its you

    "
    750 million rounds, divided by 70,000 LEOs, divided by 5 years equals 2,142 rounds fired by EACH officer during annual training.

    Is anyone actually stupid enough to believe these lies????"

    No, Im not stupid, I know you dont know what youre talking about.

    I know one fmr "pro" that said hed burn 1000-5000 a WEEKEND. (Training at schools is easy 200-500s a day.)

    Yes, a pro, not a weekend shooter, who must depend on a gun has to use duty ammo to practice, as the firearm performs radically differently depending on ammo.

    I assume youve not tested various rounds in a firearm to know he difference. The amount of powder, the slug mass make a huge difference in control, stance, recoil, time to get back on target, ballistics and accuracy..AND slide performance if its a semi auto (not revolver).

    Not everything the "Gummit" does is a giant conspiracy. Without the hystera, read:

    http://searchjustice.usdoj.gov/searc...ult_collection

    PROS, not amateurs like weekeend shooters and Mayberry cops are REQUIRED to train with duty ammo by regulations.

    If youre bound to find a conspiracy here it is - to cause shortages so we cant buy it.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Who are these anti- American companies who are selling all this ammo to the govt? If on one hand we laud those companies who are refusing to do business with the govt. aren't we sending mixed signals by not condenming businesses that still have dealings with the govt.?
    Government contracts are public record, for the most part, even DoD is required under the law to post contract data. It is very easy-ish to determine who is and who is not doing business with the feds.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_patriot@ymail.com View Post

    PROS, not amateurs like weekeend shooters and Mayberry cops are REQUIRED to train with duty ammo by regulations.
    Absolute Bovine Scatology.

    The military are pros and they train with airsoft, safety ammo, and blanks. I worked for the University of Illinois, I trained with the Illinois State Police, at the time recognized as the most professional police force in the nation. They trained with target ammo they handload. PROs understand that full bore ammo is not needed for training, and in fact can be a detriment to acquiring trigger, breath, and mental control skills. PROS on a regular basis teach handgun skills by teaching dry firing, or empty chambers, duds. Many large law enforcement departments has added airsoft to their training.

    Before making stupid statements that have no basis in fact it helps to do some research and actually know what you are talking about.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Government contracts are public record, for the most part, even DoD is required under the law to post contract data. It is very easy-ish to determine who is and who is not doing business with the feds.
    I don't see a conspiracy, I believe the federal agencies are hoarding like everybody else. The problem is we are paying for their hoarding.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    I'm not saying your concern is unwarranted but... 2142 rounds a year = piss poor training. The civilian one day training classes I've attended required 500 round and I used 'em all.

    This country needs more ammunition manufacturers!! The feds are running the price up!
    I shoot a .22 conversion on my Beretta, and go through 500+ rounds per week...more during the summer. nice bang for the buck, IMO.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Re: Story about government 1.6 Billion round ammo buy

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Absolute Bovine Scatology.

    The military are pros and they train with airsoft, safety ammo, and blanks. I worked for the University of Illinois, I trained with the Illinois State Police, at the time recognized as the most professional police force in the nation. They trained with target ammo they handload. PROs understand that full bore ammo is not needed for training, and in fact can be a detriment to acquiring trigger, breath, and mental control skills. PROS on a regular basis teach handgun skills by teaching dry firing, or empty chambers, duds. Many large law enforcement departments has added airsoft to their training.

    Before making stupid statements that have no basis in fact it helps to do some research and actually know what you are talking about.
    I was a seabee in the navy. There was no difference in the ammo we trained with and the ammo issued when we went overseas. The only time I trained with a weapon that didn't have live ammo was in boot camp when we shot shotguns connected to air lines. When we would go to jblm to shoot we'd go through 1000 rounds of 5.56 minimum in one day.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    I was a seabee in the navy. There was no difference in the ammo we trained with and the ammo issued when we went overseas. The only time I trained with a weapon that didn't have live ammo was in boot camp when we shot shotguns connected to air lines. When we would go to jblm to shoot we'd go through 1000 rounds of 5.56 minimum in one day.
    The navy is completely different from police depts. They ONLY use FMJ ammo, usually the ammo used for training of semi autos. Snipers are about the only units in police depts that must use duty ammo for obvious reasons. Even the army now uses airsoft to train with. Military shoots probably more than most police depts do understandably. Navy or other services cannot use hollow point ammo due to international agreements.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I shoot a .22 conversion on my Beretta, and go through 500+ rounds per week...more during the summer. nice bang for the buck, IMO.
    I have a CMMG .22lr converter for my DPMS AR that works quite well, but even .22lr is scarce right now. I've been holding on to as much as possible because I have some new-to-the-sport friends who signed up for the CCW class before the latest chicken little run on ammo/guns. They had no idea that a statement from Wayne LaPierre could trigger such a knee jerk reaction. I hope that at least the .22lr ammo shortage will ease because I have 3 .22lr guns that I like to shoot regularly.

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    I have a CMMG .22lr converter for my DPMS AR that works quite well, but even .22lr is scarce right now. I've been holding on to as much as possible because I have some new-to-the-sport friends who signed up for the CCW class before the latest chicken little run on ammo/guns. They had no idea that a statement from Wayne LaPierre could trigger such a knee jerk reaction. I hope that at least the .22lr ammo shortage will ease because I have 3 .22lr guns that I like to shoot regularly.
    The ammo sales surge started well before Wayne made any statements. The surge came when the libtard in chief opened his mouth about gun control again. Got worse when that skank Fineswine chirped in also.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Actually, here it started as soon as folks started to speculate what the administrations response would be after Newtown.

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