Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: What happens if WA takes longer than 30 days to issue your CPL?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, WA
    Posts
    116

    What happens if WA takes longer than 30 days to issue your CPL?

    Happened to a buddy of mine in Spokane. Took about 48 days before they finally coughed it up. According to state law, this doesn't seem legal. But if there are no repercussions, what is to stop them from doing it more often?
    -LIFETIME NRA MEMBER-
    || SPRINGFIELD LOADED SS || LES BAER CUSTOM CARRY HARD CHROME || SPRINGFIELD TRP ||
    -DONT TREAD ON ME-

  2. #2
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duvall, Washington
    Posts
    330
    Nothing.
    WA Guns
    "There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

  3. #3
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    Nothing.
    Mostly true. Of course, after the first few Writs of Mandamus hit them, their superiors in the government WILL NOT be happy with them...

  4. #4
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by theaero View Post
    Happened to a buddy of mine in Spokane. Took about 48 days before they finally coughed it up. According to state law, this doesn't seem legal. But if there are no repercussions, what is to stop them from doing it more often?
    according to RCW 9.41.810 it is a misdemeaner, and at least in theory whoever was responsible (the sheriff?) could be charged in a court of law. So now how to get the responsible person charged? Well, I think that is part of the problem.



    RCW 9.41.810

    Penalty.

    Any violation of any provision of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, shall be a misdemeanor and punishable accordingly
    Last edited by hermannr; 02-16-2013 at 10:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    according to RCW 9.41.810 it is a misdemeaner, and at least in theory whoever was responsible (the sheriff?) could be charged in a court of law. So now how to get the responsible person charged? Well, I think that is part of the problem.
    RCW 9.41.810
    Penalty.
    Any violation of any provision of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, shall be a misdemeanor and punishable accordingly
    Then there is this

    RCW 9.41.0975
    Officials and agencies Immunity, writ of mandamus.
    (1) The state, local governmental entities, any public or private agency, and the employees of any state or local governmental entity or public or private agency, acting in good faith, are immune from liability:
    (d) For failing to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license to a person eligible for such a license;
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Marysville, Washington, USA
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    according to RCW 9.41.810 it is a misdemeaner, and at least in theory whoever was responsible (the sheriff?) could be charged in a court of law. So now how to get the responsible person charged? Well, I think that is part of the problem.



    RCW 9.41.810

    Penalty.

    Any violation of any provision of this chapter, except as otherwise provided, shall be a misdemeanor and punishable accordingly
    Unfortunatly, the legislature created a loophole for them...

    RCW 9.41.0975

    Officials and agencies Immunity, writ of mandamus.
    (1) The state, local governmental entities, any public or private agency, and the employees of any state or local governmental entity or public or private agency, acting in good faith, are immune from liability:

    (a) For failure to prevent the sale or transfer of a firearm to a person whose receipt or possession of the firearm is unlawful;

    (b) For preventing the sale or transfer of a firearm to a person who may lawfully receive or possess a firearm;

    (c) For issuing a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license to a person ineligible for such a license;

    (d) For failing to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license to a person eligible for such a license;

    (e) For revoking or failing to revoke an issued concealed pistol license or alien firearm license;

    (f) For errors in preparing or transmitting information as part of determining a person's eligibility to receive or possess a firearm, or eligibility for a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license;

    (g) For issuing a dealer's license to a person ineligible for such a license; or

    (h) For failing to issue a dealer's license to a person eligible for such a license.

    (2) An application may be made to a court of competent jurisdiction for a writ of mandamus:

    (a) Directing an issuing agency to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license wrongfully refused;

    (b) Directing a law enforcement agency to approve an application to purchase wrongfully denied;

    (c) Directing that erroneous information resulting either in the wrongful refusal to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license or in the wrongful denial of a purchase application be corrected; or

    (d) Directing a law enforcement agency to approve a dealer's license wrongfully denied.

    The application for the writ may be made in the county in which the application for a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license or to purchase a pistol was made, or in Thurston county, at the discretion of the petitioner. A court shall provide an expedited hearing for an application brought under this subsection (2) for a writ of mandamus. A person granted a writ of mandamus under this subsection (2) shall be awarded reasonable attorneys' fees and costs.

  7. #7
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Then there is this
    couple little words in there..."...when acting in good faith...". It is not a blanket immunity. If there is no reasonable reason for their delay, or refusal, they just lost their immunity. Ya think?

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA, ,
    Posts
    435
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    couple little words in there..."...when acting in good faith...". It is not a blanket immunity. If there is no reasonable reason for their delay, or refusal, they just lost their immunity. Ya think?
    This is what I was just considering as well. Is it incumbent upon me to prove that they are not acting in good faith, or do they have to prove that they are, in fact, acting in good faith? Once again it seems, we are expected to conform to and obey the laws, but our Government gets a free pass.

    My 30 days are up tomorrow from my renewal application, monday is a holiday, so we will see what I get in the mail on Tuesday. I won't be making this mistake again.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

  9. #9
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    couple little words in there..."...when acting in good faith...". It is not a blanket immunity. If there is no reasonable reason for their delay, or refusal, they just lost their immunity. Ya think?
    Find a prosecutor or someone willing to go forward with getting it infront of a Judge and then to prove it was not in good faith and have a Judge rule on it as such, Really! Ya Think?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Coyote_VS_ACME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bummertown
    Posts
    37
    While a bother, I cannot help but think in the back of my mind, that automatically going after the Sheriff for slow processing of it and outright off the cuff thinking it was on purpose is harmful.

    It seems that for now, more times than not, folks like the Sheriff and LEO's support and understand our position and will work with us.

    Going after one that might be acting in good faith but bogged down by say, sheer numbers of applications / renewals honestly - well, I think that if it hurts or has a chance to hurt a good working relationship then will they be so supportive in the future after getting mired in a legal battle?

    We need supportive folks in "high" places all we can get.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Slightly right of center
    Posts
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote_VS_ACME View Post
    While a bother, I cannot help but think in the back of my mind, that automatically going after the Sheriff for slow processing of it and outright off the cuff thinking it was on purpose is harmful.

    It seems that for now, more times than not, folks like the Sheriff and LEO's support and understand our position and will work with us.

    Going after one that might be acting in good faith but bogged down by say, sheer numbers of applications / renewals honestly - well, I think that if it hurts or has a chance to hurt a good working relationship then will they be so supportive in the future after getting mired in a legal battle?

    We need supportive folks in "high" places all we can get.
    Well said. Better to go after those jurisdictions that call the 30 days a "waiting period" (it's not) and then slip over it. In the case of the "honest" (yeah, I said that) ones who are just swamped, maybe a gentle reminder that it is against state law to go over the 30 days and ask how we can help.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    I'd bet that if it's simply a case of backlog, too many applications to be processed by too few people, none of those people would be vulnerable to a claim of bad faith. Whoever is in charge of hiring enough people to handle the work load might be, but if they have a fixed budget they are not in control of, that might be a problem too. And whoever decides on departmental budgets might be too insulated from the problem to be even aware of it, which eliminates bad faith as well.

    Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
    Bierce was talking about corporations, but any bureaucracy does that, public or private. And the CPL issue is a perfect example.
    Last edited by Difdi; 02-17-2013 at 09:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Lynnwood
    Posts
    75
    Thought I saw somewhere it was taking 60-90 day to get a CPL due to the amount of people applying.

    Only 2 things will happen.
    #1 You will get your CPL.
    #2 You will get a letter saying why.

    Nothing more.

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I'd bet that if it's simply a case of backlog, too many applications to be processed by too few people, none of those people would be vulnerable to a claim of bad faith. Whoever is in charge of hiring enough people to handle the work load might be, but if they have a fixed budget they are not in control of, that might be a problem too. And whoever decides on departmental budgets might be too insulated from the problem to be even aware of it, which eliminates bad faith as well.



    Bierce was talking about corporations, but any bureaucracy does that, public or private. And the CPL issue is a perfect example.

    That's all fine and good but the LAW still says "Shall issue within 30 Days". Nowhere does it say "unless your incompetent and understaffed".

    The law does provide for cancelling a permit issued if adverse information is revealed.

    Again, the purpose of the law was to prevent stalling tactics and who knows if that's the case here or not.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  15. #15
    Regular Member bmg50cal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    WA - North Whidbey/ Deception Pass
    Posts
    307
    There is that significantly under utilized section 10 of RCW 9.41.070, they could easily make people happy while they piddle around issuing the 5 year license.
    (10) Notwithstanding the requirements of subsections (1) through (9) of this section, the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of the applicant's residence may issue a temporary emergency license for good cause pending review under subsection (1) of this section. However, a temporary emergency license issued under this subsection shall not exempt the holder of the license from any records check requirement. Temporary emergency licenses shall be easily distinguishable from regular licenses.
    Last edited by bmg50cal; 02-27-2013 at 09:27 PM. Reason: typo

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ritzville, Washington, United States
    Posts
    7

    spokane

    Right now it is taking 60 to 90 days for CPL in Spokane, my sister and brother in law are waiting for theirs and this is what they were told, I think it is a crock and a stalling tactic hoping others will forget about getting theirs. It really does not take that long to run the NCIC.

  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    Quote Originally Posted by 1sgDavo View Post
    Right now it is taking 60 to 90 days for CPL in Spokane, my sister and brother in law are waiting for theirs and this is what they were told, I think it is a crock and a stalling tactic hoping others will forget about getting theirs. It really does not take that long to run the NCIC.
    I would suggest those are facing this issue to contact their State Representatives.

    Find Your Representative Here
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Central South Sound
    Posts
    1,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Wing Wacko View Post
    Unfortunatly, the legislature created a loophole for them...

    RCW 9.41.0975

    Officials and agencies — Immunity, writ of mandamus.
    (1) The state, local governmental entities, any public or private agency, and the employees of any state or local governmental entity or public or private agency, acting in good faith, are immune from liability:


    (d) For failing to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license to a person eligible for such a license;
    IANAL, but I read this a little differently...these local delays are not a "Failure" to issue (as in we're not going to do it) vs. doing it in a timely manner....

    In the end it "es machs nichts", because no one here is actually going to take any action that will affect the process issue as opposed to "their" issue....you'll get them when they come.

    Is it right?...no. Is it inconvienient?...yes. Legally do you have recourse? Maybe....Is the money or time you will spend worth the outcome? That depends on how much money you have.

    After your CPL shows up, 60 days late, are you going to be willing to go the distance and continue to spend your $$ for all those other poor souls that are still waiting in all those other juridictions? You tell me....

    Otherwise, this seems to be mostly raging against the system

    I take hope in the fact that the overall numbers of CPL holders are swelling and they care enough to show up and wait in a line for 2-3 hours to get started....late to the party maybe, but still showing up.

    As a group, we complain a lot, debate a lot, learn a lot on sites like this individually,yell at each other way too much, have a few guys that show up and we claim local wins like Oak Harbor, and other local challenges like Spokane, Vancouver, Pierce County Parks, Wenatchee parks, testify a little as individual citizens with the expectation that a public hearing is actually going to change a legislators position, organize some events weekend rally's when no one in power is around to hear it, and wonder why we haven't moved the ball very well to our issues (IMHO).

    Annual membership in SAF is $15.00....everybody signed up? Let's argue about the NRA agenda and $25 bucks.

    It feels like we're a rocking chair on the porch...a lot of activity but not much progress...especially when I put it in persepctive to these stories...

    http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...srootsxml.html

    An eternity ago, there was a poll on this site asking a simple question...Should WA OC organize itself formally into a group and take up any of these issues or join in solidarity with other organized efforts....the response was less than encouraging...and the reasons less so....

    Nick, can you find the discussion link? Maybe this time, the crisis is enough...the issues worth fighting against....or we can do what we have been doing and continue to rail into the wind and listen to the echo.
    Last edited by jt59; 02-27-2013 at 02:12 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA, ,
    Posts
    435

    38 days....

    Received my renewal in 38 days. Considering some of the stories of much longer I suppose I should consider myself lucky. It is dated as issued at the 30 day mark, so I guess they can blame the US Postal Service for taking the extra 8 days..

    I would agree that it is good so many people are lining up to get theirs. That is good to see, and a positive note. As for renewals, my lesson is learned.......Piss Poor planning on my part does not constitute an emergency on their part.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Apparently to answer the OP's question, that when your local yokels break the law absolutely nothing happens to them.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duvall, Washington
    Posts
    330
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Apparently to answer the OP's question, that when your local yokels break the law absolutely nothing happens to them.
    Exactly. That was my original point. Nothing will happen. You could take them to court, prove that them not following the law caused you some sort of financial impact and maybe, just maybe, they will award you some $ compensation and write a few training bulletins. But that is a long way to go to complain about not getting your CC permit in 30 days.

    In addition, police departments consider the CC process a service that fits at the lowest priority. Just like a drivers license. They have to do it but there is no incentive to provide it in the fastest time possible or with great customer service. That is a fact and the nature of government. They wont get paid more. Their job is based on how many they issue and in what time frame.

    So the bottom line is if you don't like it then file a suit and try to get them to improve. As of right now there is a requirement and they have no penalty if not followed.
    WA Guns
    "There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    Exactly. That was my original point. Nothing will happen. You could take them to court, prove that them not following the law caused you some sort of financial impact and maybe, just maybe, they will award you some $ compensation and write a few training bulletins. But that is a long way to go to complain about not getting your CC permit in 30 days.

    In addition, police departments consider the CC process a service that fits at the lowest priority. Just like a drivers license. They have to do it but there is no incentive to provide it in the fastest time possible or with great customer service. That is a fact and the nature of government. They wont get paid more. Their job is based on how many they issue and in what time frame.

    So the bottom line is if you don't like it then file a suit and try to get them to improve. As of right now there is a requirement and they have no penalty if not followed.
    It doesn't surprise me at all though, the government and it's agencies break their own laws constantly without repercussion.

    If it was done by competing private agencies, they'd have you in and out in 10 min., or how ever long the background check took. And we know for sure that if it was law they had to have it out within 30 days, that the government would be all over them with penalties for not complying.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Duvall, Washington
    Posts
    330
    We should be able to charge the government(give back some of our own money) for every minute they go over a set time for each transaction. It is set by a civilian review board who goes through the process and identifies what is an appropriate amount of time. And the government can take it out of the employee's pay. And results in less money to the agency who fails.
    WA Guns
    "There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by badkarma View Post
    We should be able to charge the government(give back some of our own money) for every minute they go over a set time for each transaction. It is set by a civilian review board who goes through the process and identifies what is an appropriate amount of time. And the government can take it out of the employee's pay. And results in less money to the agency who fails.
    We can dream right......

    I wrote a letter to my local Sheriff about how the county facilities department was breaking the law with the backing of the prosecutor.....his reply back was he's the legal adviser so basically too bad.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wa, ,
    Posts
    2,769
    Did he state where he got his law degree and when he was licensed after passing the BAR?
    Back in the day when it was called a CWP, the RCW specifically provided for a civil suit against any agency that unlawfully denied or delayed issuance beyond the 30 day limit. This all changed when the CWP was changed to being a CPL.
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 03-02-2013 at 11:58 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •