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Thread: The problem with being "Grandfathered" after an assault weapons ban.

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    The problem with being "Grandfathered" after an assault weapons ban.

    I wanted to express some concerns about the possible high-cap mag bans here in Colorado and the rest of the US. Even though us high-cap gun owners are grandfathered in how can we prove we owned these firearms before the ban? How can we get replacement parts and mags for our weapons? This to me opens up a world of harassment from the government and law enforcement. My major concerns are my xdm40 is my only carry weapon for self defense and if I get stopped by an LEO I would have to prove I owned this firearm before this ban took place. I imagine in this situation the LEO would take possession of such firearm until you can prove you are grandfathered. The other concern is how would this affect replacement parts for such weapons? Could I still buy extra mags? Could I even buy a replacement spring for my old mags? The problems are clear. We as law-abiding citizens and lawful gun owners could possibly face weapons charges over a weapon we legally own. In the end it would be our word against theirs. I'm aware this bill has yet to be approved but wanted to show my concern for the topic. These bans show no direct relation to slowing gun violence, it only opens the doors to criminals to have easier targets. I myself never carried for protection until my home was broken into and I was robbed at gunpoint. I'd love to live in a perfect world where I don't have to carry for defense but it is what it is and you have to be prepared. Do I blame the gun he used to rob me... NO. I blame the criminal for his actions though he was never caught and brought to justice. A gun ban would not have stopped this robbery as he used a lever action rifle. These types of crimes and mostly committed with the most readily available weapon. Which in most cases are stolen or obtained from people they know.

    So back to topic I was wondering if anyone had any ideas to help with proving I am grandfathered. I want to contact a lawyer and have some paperwork done and mailed to me first class mail and not open it. Inside would contain my serial numbers of such firearms and date of purchase. Any advice on this would be great! Thanks for reading!

    Adam

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    These bans are not constitutional ... so the grandfathering is a moot point

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    A very valid point. However my worries are if they want to take it they still will. No matter if I explain its unconstitutional and he can't do that. If I tell him no I will face further charges. I'm a firm believer in the country our forefathers founded in 1776 and was always taught anything that goes against the bill of rights is void. The situation we're faced with is tricky because of the people who ignore the bill of rights or simply misunderstand it. The 2A was not about hunting or gaming but about us having the same firepower the government would have in case of tyranny foreign and domestic. Which would void the 86 ban on fully automatic weapons. And if I'm not mistaken were the real classification as a "assault weapon" not these semi autos today. I also remember in school being taught if the government fails to protect out right as citizens we have the right to overthrow and reform a new government "10th amendment". I am disappointed with the direction of our country today but I'm more disappointed in the people who sit by and let them take our rights. We are literally trading rights for protection. I don't know about most Americans but I'd rather be responsible for my own protection then to have to rely on the cops who are not paid to be my personal protection. They are responders, not bodyguards. We can't keep trading liberty for protection. Wake up America and take responsibility for all of us. If one of us fails to protect another persons rights we can expect the same rights to be taken from us.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I don't know if this will work, but I've been focusing my attention on Governor Hickenlooper urging him not to sign these 2A restricting bills UNLESS THERE IS AN EXCEPTION PROVIDED FOR CHP HOLDERS. This approach would at least provide the Governor with some cover since the restrictions would then pass constitutional scrutiny for not being overly onerous.

    I can hear the chuckling as to WHY we would even want to entertain the thought of advising this Governor to protect his political 6.

    My reasoning stems from the present reality that Democrats appear to have an edge at Colorado polls- at least for now. Given the possibility that Hickenlooper has a good chance for re-election anyway due to the mass shooting hysteria present in the state of mind of the sheep this may be the only path available to mitigate the damage coming out of the General Assembly right now. The CHP exception presents a "common sense reasonable" approach to satisfying concerns regarding background checks, and HI-cap magazines. CHP holders undergo a higher level of scrutiny than a NIC's background check anyway.

    If Coloradoans inundate Governor Hickenlooper with such a recommendation he may just opt to buy into it- to better ensure his chances for reelection if for no better reason.

    I don't particularly LIKE this approach - but it may be better than settling for an across the board application of these infringements.

    NO - the campus carry law should ABSOLUTELY NOT BE REPEALED>
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 02-16-2013 at 07:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical_MTN40 View Post
    I am disappointed with the direction of our country today but I'm more disappointed in the people who sit by and let them take our rights. .
    The vast majority of people, even posters here, would do nothing if laws are passed but abide by them...baa baa baa .. sheep who have never fought for freedom

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    Rushcreek you have a decent idea. The only problem is we are resorting to compromise now which these liberals wont do themselves. If they compromised on a logical approach we would not be having this conversation. So compromise seems to be the lesser of the evils but we should still focus our fight towards eliminating these treasonous bills and try these politicians with treason and deprivation of rights by color of law. The only compromise I want to make is that we wont charge em with treason if they step down from office. Then we should focus on making it a requirement that they to go through the same background checks we chp holders do just to get into office. And make sure they respect and know all of the bill of rights before becoming a candidate. They want to fight dirty, so lets try to slip this law through. Make it harder for them to become politicians. It's funny to think democrats used the fillabuster all the time till the republicans used it against them. Now they want to repeal it or change it. Great example of how democrats will sell out their own rights so others can't use it against them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The vast majority of people, even posters here, would do nothing if laws are passed but abide by them...baa baa baa .. sheep who have never fought for freedom
    What ever gives you this idea?

    People don't "fight" prohibition, but they don't abide by it either.

    Guns would be no different.

    The reason people don't fight is not because they're cowards; it's because there's no point in fighting when it's simpler to just ignore the law. Most people are pragmatists who just want to live their lives, not tough-talking line-in-the-sand types out to make a point.

    Frankly, I oppose gun control because it's stupid and it won't work, not because I expect to modify my behavior according to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    I don't know if this will work, but I've been focusing my attention on Governor Hickenlooper urging him not to sign these 2A restricting bills UNLESS THERE IS AN EXCEPTION PROVIDED FOR CHP HOLDERS. >
    This is a dangerous road, and I like it not one bit. It elevates people who have supplicated the government to higher status than those who simply excercise their rights. It paves the way for mandated licensure, and for registration.

    I do not have, and will never obtain, a CHP. I need NO permission for my rights; they are God-given.

    Do not allow these politicians to glorify those who would ask their masters for the table scraps.
    Last edited by Alamo Jack; 02-17-2013 at 12:19 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo Jack View Post
    This is a dangerous road, and I like it not one bit. It elevates people who have supplicated the government to higher status than those who simply excercise their rights. It paves the way for mandated licensure, and for registration.

    I do not have, and will never obtain, a CHP. I need NO permission for my rights; they are God-given.

    Do not allow these politicians to glorify those who would ask their masters for the table scraps.
    +∞+1

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The vast majority of people, even posters here, would do nothing if laws are passed but abide by them...baa baa baa .. sheep who have never fought for freedom
    I am not going to comply with any laws that violate me in any way. I will not budge an inch. I will keep every single item I own, even if it is deemed illegal by the government.

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    Welcome to the forum! Would that be Henderson, NV, you are from? Or is there one in VA, too?

    Quote Originally Posted by akfreak View Post
    ...even if it is deemed illegal by the government.
    The guns won't be "illegal."

    They'll just be "undocumented."
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-17-2013 at 03:00 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    H, NV! THX for the welcome. When I say deemed illegal, I mean hi cap mags, "assault" rifle receivers, ect... I say from my cold dead hands, or from a deep post hole!

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    If we continue on this trend, I am likely leaving Colorado for friendlier states. It's really becoming more of a California Jr. anyway...and kind of like China - the battle against the liberal horde almost isn't worth it. They refuse to work under good faith, compromise, with any logic, or anything. The conspiracy theories aside, I think things will get worse before they get better.

    I'll likely end up in a cabin in the woods living out my days off the vegetables I grow, the deer I shoot, and the solar power and wind power I can harness from my own gritty hands. We've done it before and can do it again if we have to. Do I want that to happen? Of course not, but am doing what I can, including teaching classes, getting others educated, and the whole 9 yards.

    Speak loudly, logically, calmly, and such - maybe with enough people speaking their mind, the tide may turn...but, then again maybe not.

    Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGCJason View Post
    If we continue on this trend, I am likely leaving Colorado for friendlier states. It's really becoming more of a California Jr. anyway...and kind of like China - the battle against the liberal horde almost isn't worth it. They refuse to work under good faith, compromise, with any logic, or anything. The conspiracy theories aside, I think things will get worse before they get better.

    I'll likely end up in a cabin in the woods living out my days off the vegetables I grow, the deer I shoot, and the solar power and wind power I can harness from my own gritty hands. We've done it before and can do it again if we have to. Do I want that to happen? Of course not, but am doing what I can, including teaching classes, getting others educated, and the whole 9 yards.

    Speak loudly, logically, calmly, and such - maybe with enough people speaking their mind, the tide may turn...but, then again maybe not.

    Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, right?
    Sounds like my SHTF plan. Have a simple cabin in the woods with raw essentials. Gravity plumbing, solar, and a generator just in case. It's a beautiful but crazy world we live in. Sad to see Colorado turn into California. I moved here several years back for my love of mtn biking, snowboarding, shooting, and more jobs in carpentry. Seems the whole gun friendly thing here is quickly disappearing. Wyoming might be my best best if Colorado passes these bills.

    I've tried contacting plenty of people with little to no luck on the matter. Seems most people don't care. Magpul wants to leave if this all goes through and several other companies and small businesses. I'm not just talking gun industry employers, I'm talking contractors and store owners. I would hate to see these great jobs leave state. These democrats have no idea how bad this would affect the economy here. Guess we will see where it goes from here.

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    Expanding the CHP authority to serve as exception authority for NIC's checks, magazine capacity limits, as well as any future restrictions intended to restrict criminal access would serve to redirect attention to the real causes of examples of human depravity exhibited in these mass-shooting tragedies - that being our totally dysfunctional criminal justice, and mental health systems.

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    [QUOTE=I was wondering if anyone had any ideas to help with proving I am grandfathered.[/QUOTE]

    Hi Adam,

    You could take color photos of all hi-cap mags and firearms, and then have each page notorized and dated by the notary public.

    AUGustin

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    verified

    Has anyone seen a "Grandfather" clause in this bill??

    Denver now has a Limit and it is not grandfathered so if you carry a HiCap mag in a concealed pistol you can be in trouble

    Has anyone seen the full text of the bill that says mags now owned are good to go????

    ch

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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    Has anyone seen a "Grandfather" clause in this bill??

    Denver now has a Limit and it is not grandfathered so if you carry a HiCap mag in a concealed pistol you can be in trouble

    Has anyone seen the full text of the bill that says mags now owned are good to go????

    ch
    Denver I believe has a high-cap ban of anything over 20 rounds. So unless your carrying a tec-9 or an ar-15 you should be fine. The bill I read said all weapons legally obtained before the ban will be honored and grandfathered. But again opens doors for many of problems. Including registration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    Hi Adam,

    You could take color photos of all hi-cap mags and firearms, and then have each page notorized and dated by the notary public.

    AUGustin
    Thanks for the advice! Just got to be prepared just in case.

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    They have a big problem with enforcement. Here's the thing on grandfathered equipment.

    The officer doesn't have evidence that your equipment is NOT grandfathered, thus his siezure is an assumption of guilt, similar to an assumption of guilt when he hassles you simply for carrying a weapon openly (which is illegal without RAS).

    Unless the law states you must provide proof (which would be a very burdensome law and perhaps actually discourage a couple more couragous Dems like Vigil to vote no), the assumption is its legal unless they can prove otherwise. Regardless in court they have to prove you obtained it after the ban.

    If they seized your stuff, you'd be inconvenienced, but you'd have a good case to suit for civil rights violations. Currently doing that myself on another issue, the thing is, it takes a long time.

    On regards to buggin out, standing together etc. People are supposed to "fight" thi eh? Well the fact is, unless you are fighting with a large organized group all you are going to be a another Dorner in their eyes. Hiding in cabins ain't gonna work folks, this requires concerted effort and continued vigilance.

    The idea of a militia muster I think bears some very viable possiblity, but its organization thats the key issue. You are talking of something mostly for show, but having several thousand people show up with long arms does make a powerful statement. Wouldn't it be something to have 10,000 show up at the Capitol... That might actually open some eyes and unstick a few brains that are stuck, thats civil disobediance on a mass scale and frankly I doubt DPD would want to force a confrontation with an armed body that size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    Has anyone seen a "Grandfather" clause in this bill??

    Go to the Colorado Legislature website and looke up HOUSE BILL 13-1224.

    It reads, in part,

    "The bill prohibits the sale, transfer, or possession of an ammunition feeding device that is capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition or more than 5 shotgun shells (large-capacity magazine). A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she owns the large-capacity magazine on the effective date of the bill and maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.

    A person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine in violation of the new provision commits a class 2 misdemeanor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon View Post
    The officer doesn't have evidence that your equipment is NOT grandfathered, thus his siezure is an assumption of guilt, similar to an assumption of guilt when he hassles you simply for carrying a weapon openly (which is illegal without RAS).

    Unless the law states you must provide proof (snip), the assumption is its legal unless they can prove otherwise. Regardless in court they have to prove you obtained it after the ban.
    Right.

    Their law does state that "THE PROSECUTION HAS THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO REFUTE THE ASSERTION."

    HOUSE BILL 13-1224 reads, in part,

    "(2) (a) A PERSON MAY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE IF HE OR SHE:
    (I) OWNS THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE ON THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION; AND
    (II) MAINTAINS CONTINUOUS POSSESSION OF THE LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE.
    (b) IF A PERSON WHO IS ALLEGED TO HAVE VIOLATED SUBSECTION
    (1) OF THIS SECTION ASSERTS THAT HE OR SHE IS PERMITTED TO LEGALLY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE PURSUANT TO PARAGRAPH (a) OF THIS SUBSECTION
    (2), THE PROSECUTION HAS THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO REFUTE THE ASSERTION."

    They would have to catch you actually transferring a mag, or buying one via mail order, etc. So beware of sting ops.

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    I was living in the San Antonio, Texas area back in 1993-94 when the Constitutional Militia movement fired up after the ATF's WACO fiasco.

    We had a couple hundred attend a Bexar County militia muster that soon spawned county musters throughout the State.

    The anti-constitutionalists will try to marginalize militia assemblies, but consider the source - what else can we expect.

    I think it is self evident that these transgressors NEED to be aware of the mustering of local militias because it delivers a needed message.

    Militia musters are pretty much "show" - and perhaps that is as it should be. Without the "show" - how do our "betters" know that we the people may actually constitute something more than mere worker bees and huddled masses ?

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    The problem with being "Grandfathered" after an assault weapons ban.

    Face it. We are all destined to become criminals now. I will not comply with these unconstitutional laws. We keep drawing lines which get crossed and what do we do? Draw another line. I am done. Will not renew my permit as this gives another avenue to monitor me. I am done. This may be my ultimate demise but I will no longer compromise.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by GvdM View Post
    Will not renew my permit as this gives another avenue to monitor me. I am done.
    At least in El Paso County you have a good sheriff who refuses to submit his list of CCW holders to the state database. I know (a little) Terry Maketa and he's a good man.

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