I wasnt trying to start an argument here! Its just very unclear and i was VERY misinformed by a LEO on some of the laws regarding to and prior to OC. Im not bashing him in anyway he is very pro gun and leiniant with his inturpretation of the actual law. He clearly did not know the law to the T. Which i found out later after reading some links, posts, and comments members have left here. It seems LEOs as most of us do have a hard time fully grasping the proper meaning of each law and circumstance. Ask 20 diff people wether they are LEO or not and get 20 diff answers. This is a very informative site for sure!
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open carry with no cpl
- Thread starter FORD78
- Start date
Bronson
Regular Member
Haha! Trust me, that's not an argument. That's normal back and forth for us.
One of the first things we learn is to NEVER ask a LEO for advice on the law. Think about it, there are so many laws on the books there is no way for them to know all of them. Some cops work under the idea of "arrest 'em all and let the courts sort it out."
Bronson
Nothing like a good debate!!!!he is a long time family friend and vetran LEO one of the honest ones and his views on the above topics are like most of our views. need alot more like him and things would be much easier for all. he even asked what could be done about changing some of the gun laws which are nonsense and nearly impossible to police. mentioned same thing that way to many of his coworkers are as you described arrest em all let court sort it out. His idea was make a lawful arrest and not waste his time, suspects time, and tax payers $ tied up in our court systems.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
Also pay close attention to that license list... public venues such as libraries and city buildings may have a license so that they can rent out rooms for weddings and other functions and serve alcohol.
yes ive seen that MOST dollar general stores are on the list. Never any that i know of around here have ever sold booze but according to list they are active on liquor list. even tho their sales show zero. whod have ever thunk?
Bronson
Regular Member
Don't forget about hotels. Some of them are licensed to sell alcohol.
Bronson
Bronson
griffin
Regular Member
It is their "conservative" recommendation.
It's not just OC, it's possessing a firearm at all--such as a hunting rifle in your trunk while at a restaurant. So you are stating all the non-CPL holding OCers you know do not carry their firearms in their trunk while at Meijer or restaurants that serve alcohol? How many non-CPL holding OCers do you know? Are there many? Just curious.
No, I have a CPL, but if I didn't carry a CPL I would feel confident and legal in possessing a firearm in the parking lot of Meijer.
griffin
Regular Member
No, because 28.425o(4) specifically excludes parking lots.
"...'premises' does not include parking areas..."
But you knew that.
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griffin
Regular Member
Interesting.
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
Exactly the problem; think of it as a 'stealth' pitfall.
Bronson
Regular Member
Wrong law. For non-CPL OC 750.234d is the law that regulates where you may carry....and that law does NOT exempt parking lots. The non-CPL OC in parking lot exemption that is argued for places that sell alcohol is because the MLCC has a specific definition of "premises" as being the actual builidng, not including parking lots. The other listed places in .234d don't have another law that defines their "premises" as the building only so I maintain that for a non-CPL holding OCer the parking lots of banks, churches, theaters, sports stadiums, etc. would be off limits.
Bronson
TheQ
Regular Member
Yes. When I give a legal suggestion for a course of action, I tend to be conservative. I'd rather not get sued for legal malpractice -- I've heard lay people can be successfully syed for that, especially if they are reasonably viewed as an "authority" on the subject.
How many who hunt target shoot etc etc have stopped off while in posession of firearm to simply get gas or something to eat and the business happens to sell liquor? If its a business thats in our home town or somewhere we frequent we would pretty much know who sells liquor and who doesnt. If one is traveling and makes a stop for gas no logical way to know if they sell liquor until "on premisis". Several places i know of are a sporting goods stores with a gun shop/restraunt which sells liquor. How would one with out a valid CPL legaly purchase a firearm in this instance? Possibly the reason wal mart carries firearm to the door for purchaser. However once non CPL purchaser hits the parking lot they are instantly breaking the law? Not that the business would actualy turn anyone in (it would be hard on sales im sure lol) Sounds like one law that needs some serious revisions.
casper
Guest
Can you get written permission to OC in places with a liquer licence, for those who don't have a CPL and be legally excepted by the law ?
Bronson
Regular Member
Yes. The law doesn't require the permission be in writing...that's just something we paranoids recommend
That's also how you can buy a firearm in a business that sells both firearms and alcohol in the same building. The store is tacitly granting you permission to possess the firearm in order to carry out the transaction.
750.234d
Bronson
Yes. The law doesn't require the permission be in writing...that's just something we paranoids recommend
That's also how you can buy a firearm in a business that sells both firearms and alcohol in the same building. The store is tacitly granting you permission to possess the firearm in order to carry out the transaction.
750.234d
Bronson
Makes a little more sense now. I guess next question. Any place that sells guns and deems one safe and legal to purchase. Should also allow same purchaser to carryon their premises. I know thats far fetched but just "sayin". That would strongly influence where i make any further purchases.
DrTodd
Michigan Moderator
"Should" is the operative word. Some gun stores do prohibit open carry. Some others may not prohibit OC but will lecture OCers about how OC will make you a target, etc. Interesting how some of our supposed "friends" feel that OC is counterproductive.
Shadow Bear
Michigan Moderator
And we should avoid any show or store that does not fully support your rights. To do so cheapens your manhood.
Raggs
Regular Member
If we stop going to gun stores that "lecture" or believe open carry will make you a target etc. who would be left?