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open carry with no cpl

F

FORD78

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Jan 20, 2013
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gaylord
I do not have a CPL and i am confused on the law of OC in a establishment that sells liquor. Does the law mean a bar in which liquor is served or just as an example your local meijers or wal mart which also sells packaged liquor? Would this include a local convienance store that sells beer but not actual liquor? Also how "open" does OC have to be? obviously not concealed by a coat or shirt.I have read where some states as long as some protion of weapon is visible it is considered OC. Any info appreciated. The law as usual is kind of confusing and contradicting.
 
Ezerharden

Ezerharden

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Erie, MI
Both. You cannot carry in either an establishment that makes a majority of it's profit from alcohol sold for consumption on the premises (bar) or any store licensed by the state liquor board without a CPL. With a CPL you can open carry in either. The only exception to the bar is if you have written permission of the owner. Hope this helps.

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
Click to expand...
28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsections (1) and (2); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (5), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

(c) A sports arena or stadium.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

(g) A hospital.

(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.
Click to expand...
 
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F

FORD78

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gaylord
where would i find a list of places that are on liquor control board? meijers would be a no go im assuming?
 
F

FORD78

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Jan 20, 2013
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gaylord
so basicaly open carry with out cpl is a joke??????....discuoraging to say the least. i did not see wal mart benton harbor or meijers benton harbor on the list however i know they sell liquor
 
TheQ

TheQ

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Aug 2, 2010
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Lansing, Michigan
ezerharden said:
both. You cannot carry in either an establishment that makes its primary source of income from alcohol sold for consumption on the premises (bar) or any store licensed by the state liquor board without a cpl. With a cpl you can open carry in either. The only exception to the bar is if you have written permission of the owner. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

fify
 
F

FORD78

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gaylord
i should have been more clear i was in the gas station portion of both places. Knowing they both stores sell liquor i knew to steer clear. Not a drinker or bar goer i was really surprised how many places in berrien county are actualy on the liquor control board. Thanks for posting the link it was an interesting read!
 
TheQ

TheQ

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For OC w/ a CPL the primary source needed be for sale on premises by the glass -- see mcl 750.234d (google)
 
Shadow Bear

Shadow Bear

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Dec 17, 2010
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Location
Grand Rapids
FORD78 said:
i doubt wal mart or meijers make a living off of booze.....ive open carried in both with praise but i dont wanna get in trouble if the confrontation happens. I got a dui reduced to a reckless driving in 06 BOGUS charge i wasnt even driving!!! that restricts me from a cpl for 8 years according to MI law. trying to get by and be protected till then
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If you weren't driving, how did you get charged? And, what jury would convict?:confused:
 
F

FORD78

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gaylord
Shadow Bear said:
If you weren't driving, how did you get charged? And, what jury would convict?:confused:
Click to expand...

Law states that officer must "witness" the suspect operating a vehichle on public roadway. That did not happen however $4,000 in lawyers later i gave in and took a plea not knowing the lesser charge would be that big of an issue almost 8 yrs later. To make a long story short i was out of money to fight it any longer. I was wrong and broke the law but LEO did not operate within the law either and NOTHING was done about that. You know who wins that case. Pretty much fell victim to the "good ole boy policy". Guess im stuck waiting another yr or so for cpl.......
 
smellslikemichigan

smellslikemichigan

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Jun 16, 2008
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2,307
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Troy, Michigan, USA
FORD78 said:
i doubt wal mart or meijers make a living off of booze.....ive open carried in both with praise but i dont wanna get in trouble if the confrontation happens. I got a dui reduced to a reckless driving in 06 BOGUS charge i wasnt even driving!!! that restricts me from a cpl for 8 years according to MI law. trying to get by and be protected till then
Click to expand...
without a CPL you can't even possess i firearm in the parking lot of a meijer, walmart or any other place that is licensed to sell liquor regardless of the percentage. i suggest you do not admit to further further crimes on a public internet forum.
 
DanM

DanM

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Jul 11, 2008
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West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
griffin said:
smellslikemichigan said:
without a CPL you can't even possess i firearm in the parking lot of a meijer, walmart or any other place that is licensed to sell liquor
Click to expand...

According to MCL and MLCC I disagree.
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MOC's recommendation falls more in line with assuming SLM's view than yours:
Michigan Open Carry said:
It's a legal grey area. Don't do it unless you are prepared to shell out over $20,000 in attorney costs if it goes to Court and you need to appeal. If it goes to the Court of Appeals we'd welcome the binding case law. We don't recommend you OC or Transport in a Parking lot of an establishment licensed to sell liquor.. As always, we advocate people should know the law, gauge their own risk, and speak to a licensed attorney for legal advise. We'd be happy to provide you references to some attorneys who have expertise in firearm laws.
Click to expand...
http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,25.msg13009.html#msg13009

Also, all the non-CPL OC'ers I've heard from so far adopt variations of MOC's and SLM's views in practice. Are you a non-CPL OC'er?
 
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Bronson

Bronson

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Jul 14, 2008
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Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
griffin said:
According to MCL and MLCC I disagree.
Click to expand...

If we were to say that you are correct in the idea that the "premises" ONLY includes the actual building....that still only applies to places licensed to sell alcohol. The remaining places on the list in .234d would still be completely off limits, including their parking lots.

So you cannot walk across the parking lot of a bank, theater, court, hospital, day care center, etc.

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.Sec. 234d.


(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:



(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
Click to expand...

Bronson
 
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