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Thread: WI bullet ban in the works.

  1. #1
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    WI bullet ban in the works.

    Just saw this, looks like it's in the works to try to get an expanding bullet ban going.

    http://mediatrackers.org/2013/02/15/...-in-wisconsin/

    "A Democratic state senator and three Democratic state representatives have circulated draft legislation that would ban civilian possession of hollow point or frangible ammunition. According to existing Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources regulations, sportsmen and women in Wisconsin must use such ammunition when hunting deer or bear. The Democratic lawmakers, two of whom are freshman, all hail from urban districts in the City of Milwaukee"

    Here is a link to the draft.

    http://mediatrackers.org/wp-content/.../LRB-08941.pdf

    This bill prohibits a person, with certain exceptions such as
    for law enforcement, from selling, transporting, manufacturing, or possessing any
    hollowpoint bullet, any bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body, or
    any bullet with a hard envelope that does not entirely cover the core of the bullet.
    An individual who violates the prohibition is guilty of a Class H felony and is subject
    to a fine of up to $10,000, imprisonment of up to six years, or both.

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    And the fight against the firearm-retarded continues...

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    "Expanding bullet" bans are the stupidest of stupid gun control.

    While hollow points have potential to reduce over-penetration and thus save innocent bystander lives, the notion that you're going to protect victims by ensuring they get shot with one type of a bullet over another is stupid.

    If you can't do anything to deter them being shot in the first place, you'e too late. Changing the type of bullet they die by is irrelevant.

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    They are dangerous bullets , hence democrats will support such bans.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    This has zero chance of gaining traction in Wisconsin. It is nothing less than an outward manifestation of ignorance. These cretins will be mocked by their peers in Madison.

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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    This has zero chance of gaining traction in Wisconsin. It is nothing less than an outward manifestation of ignorance. These cretins will be mocked by their peers in Madison.
    Never say never, there is a lot of ignorance and political opportunists walking around in our legislative halls. Unlikely to happen but another shooting by anybody with any kind of gun would be grist for the mill. Facts don't seem to be of primary concern to a certain breed of politician whose primary purpose is headlines, fund raising and reelection.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    WI bullet ban in the works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    This has zero chance of gaining traction in Wisconsin. It is nothing less than an outward manifestation of ignorance. These cretins will be mocked by their peers in Madison.
    Agreed.
    It's a symbolic proposal at best and the authors know this.

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    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    The email the reps circulated with the proposal apparently also gave the reason to ban them because the military uses hollow points and so such bullets are only for the purpose of killing people.

    As we all know, the military rarely uses hollow points.

    Hopefully, the citizens who are represented by these A) ignorant or B) lying representatives will give them an earful.
    Last edited by DangerClose; 02-17-2013 at 06:43 PM.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerClose View Post
    As we all know, the military rarely uses hollow points.
    Our military does not use expanding hollow points. The hollow point found in some specialized rounds is for ballistics and not for expansion.

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    Regular Member Big Dipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerClose View Post
    As we all know, the military rarely uses hollow points.
    Their use is prohibited by all signatories of the Hague Peace Accords of 1899.

    The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

  11. #11
    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Some MPs use hollow points on bases.

    It's also my understanding Special Ops type people can/do use HP for activities not involving the official military of another country; e.g., "counter-terrorism."

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    Is this the same old nonsense started by Rep Richards?. I heard AM1130 MN radio talk about this. So they want us to purchase solid projectiles that can penetrate 5 people before stopping rather than one that may/will stop after hitting ONE person. This same type of thinking goes into gun bans. Less guns less crime.

    I am writing to all senators and reps I know in Madison.

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    they tried this about 15-20 years ago in Madison , had a hole meeting where they talked about it till the DNR rep explained that the dnr required the use of expanding bullets for hunting


    modern self defense hand gun bullet are made specifically to not penetrate beyond 16 inches in 10% ballistic gel significantly reducing exit wounds

    12 inches of penetration not exceeding 16 were some of the FBI's magic numbers from back in the mid 80s , the very numbers that 40S&W were made to fit

    this is 12 inches and 16 inches of gelatin not bad guy and all things work differently in the field than the lab but it was a good attempt

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    Its a consant battle with the anti gun types

    There goal has always been to make it harder and harder to own and use firearm. This is just another one of their tatics.

    There was no good reason to ban FMJ for hunting it wasn't a problem. They did so they could say see you do not need this type of ammo for hunting. no need to beable to buy it.

    We just have to keep fighting them no matter what the anti's say their goal is todo away with firearm ownership.
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  15. #15
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    There was no good reason to ban FMJ for hunting it wasn't a problem.
    Non-expanding bullets ARE problematic for large game. They are less effective on large game just as they are less effective on humans. Antis did not put this requirement in place, experienced hunters did. 5.56x45 ball rounds are only effective because of fragmentation. If the velocity drops because of long range, fragmentation is reduced along with the effectiveness of stopping the "threat" immediately.
    Do you personally recommend FMJ handgun bullets for self defense to your students?

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    Thats why a lot of African hunters use soilds on big game. It wasn't a problem I do not think any studies where done how many people were using them or how much game was wounded by them.

    The same thinking gave us the stuip 5 inch barrel limits on hunting handguns also pushed by the anti's so one wouldn't beable to claim they had a hunting use.

    Your more them welcome to come up with proof that there was a problem with them.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Thats why a lot of African hunters use soilds on big game. It wasn't a problem I do not think any studies where done how many people were using them or how much game was wounded by them.

    The same thinking gave us the stuip 5 inch barrel limits on hunting handguns also pushed by the anti's so one wouldn't beable to claim they had a hunting use.

    Your more them welcome to come up with proof that there was a problem with them.
    Most African big game bullets expand. Solids on big game which do not expand start off being a very large caliber (.375 or larger) and are only used in very limited applications for breaking shoulders, etc. 5 1/2" barrels are for gig game only and that is for sufficient velocity and energy. You are obviously a hunter and have also obviously done any research on hunting bullet terminal ballistics. Neither barrel length or bullet design for hunting has anything to do with anti-hunters. If you would do even 5 minutes of research, it would be obvious to you as it is to avid hunters.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 02-19-2013 at 04:09 PM.

  18. #18
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    I was at some of the hearings and testified when handguns where being legalized. The anti handgun crowd had huge effect on the law allowing what handguns.

    Sufficient velocity and energy what BS I can load my 22 hornet with a hard cast lead bullet to 800fps and have a legal hunting load in Wis. But my 2.5 inch 357 with a 158gr bullet at 1100fps is not legal I can shoot a soild hard cast 500 lead bullet in my 45-70 and be legal but can use a 500gr FMJ.

    I can shoot a soild lead 308 bullet at 1400fps I want but can't use a fmj at twice the vel.

    I remember too well the arugments put forward their was a huge amount of anti gun BS in there.
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  19. #19
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I was at some of the hearings and testified when handguns where being legalized. The anti handgun crowd had huge effect on the law allowing what handguns.

    Sufficient velocity and energy what BS I can load my 22 hornet with a hard cast lead bullet to 800fps and have a legal hunting load in Wis. But my 2.5 inch 357 with a 158gr bullet at 1100fps is not legal I can shoot a soild hard cast 500 lead bullet in my 45-70 and be legal but can use a 500gr FMJ.

    I can shoot a soild lead 308 bullet at 1400fps I want but can't use a fmj at twice the vel.

    I remember too well the arugments put forward their was a huge amount of anti gun BS in there.
    The words "full metal jacket" are not found. The verbiage describing the prohibited bullets is "nonexpanding type bullets". This means that a hard cast non expanding bullet would be just as illegal. Wisconsin currently has neither velocity nor energy requirements for handgun or long gun cartridges. See NR 10.09 for reference. Hard cast bullets have much less lead than conventional bullets so they do not mushroom like lead bullets do.
    You may recall from those meetings that some of the strongest opponents to handgun hunting were self proclaimed lifetime rifle hunters. These types are some of the loudest anti handgun carry voices at city council meetings, etc.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 02-20-2013 at 12:14 AM.

  20. #20
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    I heard a lot of the blood in the streets talk ,shoot outs over deer, gun fights in bars, short barreled hand guns would be to easy to conceal, it will be the wildwest out there. Game wardens and LEOs would be getting killed. The down state papers full of that kind of stuff.

    All the normal anti gun BS none of witch came true.

    Yes there was a fair amount of rifle hunters sprouting off about wounded deer handguns not being powerful enough ect ect.

    The whole idea of restricting bullet types if foolish when one can easly get around it around with just a bit of hand loading. Enforcement is very hard when some one uses cast bullets whos to say they don't expand.

    If one wants one can cast duel lead bullets soft tip hard base.

    Of just push softpoint rifle bullet at a lower then normal vel it will act like FMJ and not expand. There are a lot of jacket so called expanding hand bullets out there that unless impact vel is above a certin point they well not expand. But are legal. No one out there could tell if they are loaded to 800fps or 1500fps just by looking at the loaded round.

    In the same tone one could use super expanding varmint bullets and have a much higher chance of wounding big game then with a non expanding type and be legal.

    Its should up to the hunter/shooter to decide what is best for them Rather then some one who dosen't know a thing.
    as we see in the lastest bill.

    Or dosen't fit into the narrow mind of some DNR employee or other hunters idea of what a hunting bullet is.
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