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Thread: Why We Need Democrats

  1. #1
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Why We Need Democrats

    Howdy Folks!
    There is an old proverb that says: the enemy of my enemy is my friend!

    I have seen a great deal of emnity against Democrats, but I'd like to offer another perspective on that particular topic. It is something to consider thoughtfully, rather than react with an emotional response.

    At the hearings at the state capitol in Denver last week, many pro gun rights advocates came to speak about liberty. One that I learned of was a young college student who challenged the committee considering proposed legislation to make college campuses "gun free zones".

    He said that he has a concealed carry permit, owns a handgun, goes to college. He stated he has a right to lawful self defense that is beyond the authority of the legislature to rescind. He told them he carries at school, and will continue to do so regardless of any unconstitutional effort to usurp his God given right. And he told them he is a Democrat. He believes in Gay rights, equal rights for women, and the right to keep and bear arms.

    We know the governor is Democrat. We know the house and senate are under Democratic control. And they need to hear from Democrats who own and carry guns that they'll resist any attempt to undermine the right to keep and bear arms.

    While many on forums such as these will denounce all Democrats and tar them with the same brush, we must also consider one simple, inescapable fact: The Democrats that now hold power at the state capitol fear nothing more than losing their seats. It wasn't Republicans who put them into office, but Democrats. And only Democrats can remove them. Without them on our side, we lose! That's a mathematical reality folks!

    From statistics I have seen, some 56% of Republicans own guns. But we need to cultivate the 31% of Democratic voters who also enjoy guns and the right to keep and bear arms. Those 31% of Democratic voters who challenge their representatives in congress are much better situated to whip their party into compliance. Can you imagine the panic if 1/3 of Democrat voters expressed their willingness to oust their Democrat representatives from office?

    They know they ain't got Repubicans voting for them. So they don't care what Republicans have to say.
    They know they ain't likely got Libertarians voting for them. If they care about those voters, it doesn't show.
    They may (or may not) have Independents voting for them, and they can shift their vote in a heartbeat. They'll woo their votes.
    But lose their base, Democratic voters... that is ominous as hell to those now ensconced at the state capitol. Lose Democrat voters and their reign of terror will end with the very next election.

    Many on forums such as this consider Democrats to be the enemy. We cannot afford, at this time of gun control hysteria, to split our forces while our foes assemble a united front against us. We split our forces at our own peril.

    The only people who can have significant impact and influence on Democrats now holding power is the Democrat voters who put them there. They need to know that Democrats who gave them their jobs are ready and willing to remove them just as readily.

    Yes, like it or not, we need gun toting Democrats!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 02-17-2013 at 11:58 AM.

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    Regular Member Vader33's Avatar
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    Why We Need Democrats

    I support Gay rights. I support a woman's right to choose. I support legalization of marijuana. I support rights for illegal aliens to become legal citizens.

    And I most definitely support a person's inalienable right to keep and bear arms. I think that ANY change in law, not congruent to the 2nd, is NOT law, but an infringement to the 2nd.

    I do NOT believe the right to keep and bear is meant only for hunting and sport shooting. If the 2nd Amendment wasn't supposed to be taken seriously, it wouldn't have been the 2nd Amendment in the first place.


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  3. #3
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader33 View Post
    I support Gay rights. I support a woman's right to choose. I support legalization of marijuana. I support rights for illegal aliens to become legal citizens.

    And I most definitely support a person's inalienable right to keep and bear arms. I think that ANY change in law, not congruent to the 2nd, is NOT law, but an infringement to the 2nd.

    I do NOT believe the right to keep and bear is meant only for hunting and sport shooting. If the 2nd Amendment wasn't supposed to be taken seriously, it wouldn't have been the 2nd Amendment in the first place.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Howdy Vader!
    Nicely said! I agree with every word you wrote. Yes, there is a whole bunch of infringement coming down the pike.
    The question is, what can we do about it. I believe (not versed in the mechanics of such things) an injunction against implementation of such laws might be a first response, followed by a challenge to the state surpreme court of those unConstitutional new infringements to put a stop to such nonsense. It's one thing for them to pass a law, but entirely another for it to survive a supreme court challenge.

    You spoke your mind well here, and I agree whole-heartedly.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    While what you say is true, many of those gun toting Democrats are future Republicans. That was true for me back in 92-94, and I can tell you they didn't listen then. It took the house cleaning in 94 to send the wake up call, but that didn't change a thing in California where I lived.

    You are right though, those Democrats that value thier rights need to speak up. About their right to self defense against *multiple* attackers And not about their "right" to hunt - because in reality hunting is a state priveledge - you may be able to own the gun, but they control the game license. If they decide that they won't issue game licenses, the future argument would be you no longer need a gun because hunting is forbidden - THATS the trick they are pulling with this representation about the 2nd Amendment being about hunting and skeet shooting. While I would like to hunt, its not a priority. Those hunters that are so gung ho about their 28" full choke 3 shot duck gun but can't be bothered or even think that you AR should be banned, are in fact just about as dangerous as the anti-gun people themselves - they are useful idiots.

  5. #5
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon View Post
    While what you say is true, many of those gun toting Democrats are future Republicans.
    <Snip>
    You are right though, those Democrats that value thier rights need to speak up.
    Howdy Pardner!
    I don't know if they'd switch all the way to Republican, but it would be sufficient if they changed to Independent or Libertarian.

    Like it or not, the reality is that Democrats put those guys into office, and without them "seeing the light", the folks that got voted in won't get voted out.
    We need to reach out and befriend Democrats and enlist their aid in cleaning house again, just like happened in 94. That's the thumbnail version of project 94.
    We need Democrats in Colorado to join with us in ousting the people they trusted, who have now shown their true colors.
    Many Democrats own guns, and value 2nd Amendment rights as we do. Better than 1/3 of Dems own guns and have a vested interest in keeping them.
    They were promised that gun control wasn't part of their agenda. Now we see evidence to the contrary.
    You can bet that many of them won't be voting to re-elect those guys when their next election rolls around.

    Folks who demonize Democrats and tar them with the same brush across the board, on forums such as this, do so at our own peril.
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend is more than a slick sounding cliche, it is what needs to happen if we are to change the paradigm.
    Those Dems that have been deceived now see clearly the betrayal of their trust in the party.
    What I think might help is if Dems all over Colorado call the Democratic party of Colorado and tell them they will be switching their affiliation TODAY!
    Whether they switch from Democrat to Republican, Libertarian or Independent doesn't matter, just that they switch to something other than Democrat.
    That, in and of itself, will send a loud message to the Democratic leadership.

    For any Democrat reading this, make your move today, and let them know you're changing affiliation. Then go out and register your change of party.
    I know you're out there, so either make your opinion clear or give up your 2nd Amendment rights as a consequence. Then watch while all our other rights are stripped in the aftermath!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  6. #6
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    There is a distinct difference between a democrat who votes for liberty and a democrat that votes for tyranny. The former were commonly referred to as Reagan Democrats, the later are referred to as liberals. The young college student referred to in your OP could be referred to as a Reagan Democrat.

    Liberals vote for liberals. Liberals are almost exclusively democrat. Liberals, and therefore democrats vote for tyranny. If your young college student is a Reagan Democrat and votes for liberty we have no need to woo him to our side, he is already here.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Democrat

    I tend to not "promote" the above website. But it does provide a easy overview of what a Reagan Democrat is.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member x1wildone's Avatar
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    Anyone ever heard the term guilty by association? Considering the illegal activities supported by democrats, I would think that the democrats would have to support the 2nd amendment, because it will be needed. But when you consider that taking away recognized rights would create more criminals, I realize that all will fall into the same slime pit, which seems to be the ultimate goal.
    I understand how some one that is for illegal drug use can support illegal aliens. It keeps the cost of the drugs down, even as it raises the cost of human suffering.
    I understand how some one can support abortion when they have an effm and leave em attitude.
    But if you want these things to be acceptable you will have to give up the 2nd. Because it stands in the way.
    So yes (we need democrats) to change. You cannot have your cake and eat it.
    Why can Obummer and holder run guns to Mexico? But we the people should not be allowed to have the tools to protect ourselves?

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    Why can Obummer and holder run guns to Mexico? But we the people should not be allowed to have the tools to protect ourselves?
    You know while we were in Iraq that Iraqi families were allowed to keep fully automatic weapons for protection? Iraqis in occupied territory have greater rights than Americans in their own where they actually have a listed right to such arms...

  9. #9
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    The last couple of responses made some valid arguments. All of which does not change the fact that we, gun owners, are ultimately in the minority. Those who vote Republican are not enough to oust those now sitting in office. We need the Indy's too. We need the Libertarians too. And we also need as many of the Dems as we can muster in order to change the current dynamic. It doesn't matter what labels we give them, it matters how they vote in the next election. We need as many Dems as possible to vote for liberty.

    The whole concept of Project 94 is to do precisely that.

    Remind those elected officials now striking against our gun rights what happened after they passed the AWB of 1994.
    The very next election that came along, they lost seats in both the house and senate. We need to apply the same effort on the state level.
    In 1994, the Dems lost 54 seats in the Congress of the United States House of Representatives. They lost 8 Senate seats at the same time.
    Voters threw Dems out of office in the biggest purge of modern history. And it happened largely because Dems not satisfied with them joined the Republicans in ousting them.

    We need them to remember 94. We need to let them know we'll do it again when the next midterms roll around.
    We need to band together for liberty, and throw the usurpers out on their collective ear.
    They need to hear that, time and again, over and over, until they realize we'll kick them out.

    They hear it from Republicans, ain't no big deal, they never had those votes anyhow.
    They hear it from Libertarians, they ain't too worried about them either because they are few in number.
    They hear it from Independents, and they start getting concerned because they can swing an election.
    But when they hear it from their base, from thousands of folks they rely on when elections roll around.... that puts the fear of God on them.

    They may be subversive, but they ain't stupid. If they see their base rising up against them, they'll freak out.

    That being said, every voter should contact them and let them know that we'll have a repeat of 1994,
    and they'll have brought it upon their own heads!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  10. #10
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    My 39 year old step-daughter identifies herself as a "liberal" Democrat. She was born and raised in Colorado Springs, by a " Hispanic " mother and father who themselves, were raised by " Democrat" parents. Her mother's paternal grandfather road with Pancho Villa , and later entered the U.S. illegally. We both believe the borders should be secured against illegal entry, and immigration laws enforced - in which case Obama would have to be deported immediately upon removal from office. It has taken almost 3 generations for my wife to become " conservative " and hold her nose long enough to vote consistently Republican.

    The likes of OBAMA produce many such conversions - with more to come -so there is a bright side to this Marxist class-clown's reign of stupidity. We both voted for the marijuana legalization proposition in Colorado, favor a law requiring sterilization after 3 abortions under any circumstances because no man should force a woman to bear a child they do not want, believe gays should have the option of filing an affidavit of common-law domestic partnership in common-law jurisdictions, or recording such a domestic partnership legal covenant in order to qualify for social security survivorship, and related retirement benefits. Nuff said.

    I counted myself with the Democrats as recently as 1976 - although I voted for Nixon, Ford, Reagan and every GOP candidate since 1980. I'm actually a Libertarian, as are many who consistently vote with the GOP because the Libertarian Party hasn't yet come up with a viable and serious candidate.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 02-19-2013 at 11:31 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The democrats of today are not the democrats of old. Many, many old democrats are/were conservative democrats, now the younger ones act I think they have to take a oath to Marxism.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The democrats of today are not the democrats of old. Many, many old democrats are/were conservative democrats, now the younger ones act I think they have to take a oath to Marxism.
    +1000

    And I think the current GOP is the old democrats ....

    Two party system eh

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    "need demoncraps" ?? maybe as bait for shark fishing but I hear there's some things even a shark won't eat

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    "need demoncraps" ?? maybe as bait for shark fishing but I hear there's some things even a shark won't eat
    Howdy Scotsman!
    Another individual on another forum said words to the effect (paraphrase):
    "Almost every Dem voted against us, while virtually every Repub voted for us."

    That statement made clear enough that we cannot change the current dynamic on our own.
    We need to Libertarians to side with us in this fight.
    We also need the Independent voters to go our way as well.
    But I do not believe that's enough to throw the bums out.

    The last election swept in these gun grabbers with large and comfortable margins.
    We cannot hope to win without some Dems coming over to our side.
    Alienate them to our peril.

    Statistics show that appx 1/3 of Dems are also gun owners.
    We need them to vote our way.
    Otherwise, as the numbers show clearly enough, we keep losing ground.
    The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    We don't need to adopt their policies, ideology or anything else.
    But if you care about your rights, we need them to line up and oust those who would take them.
    Otherwise, we can all kiss our guns goodbye.

    Like it or not, we ain't got the numbers on our side without a lot of dems backing our play.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    We need independents to vote against the left wing rabble that has become the democrap party. Someone once called them "the party of cowards, commies and ******." Probably was harsh then; is no longer. Their core support is among those groups. We need the non-aligned who do not number themselves among them to vote against those who are for just those reasons. In CO, the democrap party is radicalized to the point it must be considered an enemy of freedom. In combat you don't make compromises with the enemy. You eliminate them. That is the salient point here, not that there may be one or two good members of a corrupt, anti-liberty party. The GOP in this state needs to get its collective head out of its butt and grow some balls in whom it nominates for offices that are in play.

    (I use the term "queer" in the quote verbatim. I am not anti-gay, so save the righteous indignation. That being said, the agenda of the democrap party supports that of the most radical homosexual community openly. That is simply a fact. That the party is composed of the other two groups: res ipsa loquitur.)
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Elected officials authoring, sponsoring, supporting, or signing off on these anti-constitution bills surely understand that they are unconstitutional - so their actions clearly serve to demonstrate their total disregard for the concept of constitutionality.

  17. #17
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    Elected officials authoring, sponsoring, supporting, or signing off on these anti-constitution bills surely understand that they are unconstitutional - so their actions clearly serve to demonstrate their total disregard for the concept of constitutionality.
    Howdy Rush!
    You may remember sevral years ago, Colorado passed a blatantly unConstitutional law called Amendment Two. It gave landlords the right to kick out anybody they believed (not proven, simply believed) to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc. It also provided employers the right to get rid of gay folks on their workforce, and refuse them jobs. It was overtly discriminatory, and was ruled against by the courts of Colorado, including the Colorado Supreme Court. It worked all the way to the United States Supreme Court and was also ruled (yet again) unConstitutional.

    All the money, time, effort and expense thrown down the toilet for what? They knew it was unConstitutional be start with, yet persisted in pushing the issue they knew was a losing proposition. Just because something is unConstitutional does not mean they wont TRY!

    Now they have a bunch of measures in the Colorado legislature that are just as unConstitutional and they don't care. They'll push the issue all the way to SCOTUS if they believe they have a fighting chance of getting their legislation to stick. They'll lose, and Colorado will have dumped a ton of money, time, effort and expense in trying to impose their will upon the citizenry.

    What they fail to appreciate is that all power is vested in the people. And we can certainly derail them by another provision of the Colorado Constitution:
    Article 2; sections 1 and 2 read as follows:

    In order to assert our rights, acknowledge our duties, and proclaim the principles upon which our government is founded, we declare:

    Section 1. Vestment of political power. All political power is vested in and derived from the people; all government, of right, originates from the people, is founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole.

    Section 2. People may alter or abolish form of government - proviso. The people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves, as a free, sovereign and independent state; and to alter and abolish their constitution and form of government whenever they may deem it necessary to their safety and happiness, provided, such change be not repugnant to the constitution of the United States.

    So... they wanna play around, we are perfectly able to fix that!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  18. #18
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The NEO-Marxists (who decry the label "communist") controlling the Democrat Party ignore the time-tested axiom that every wave of an extemist poltical agenda produces a corresponding surge of political reaction.

    Their zeal is offset by blindness to the fact that the negative reaction coming their way will not be satisfied with merely stopping or slowing their "progress" this time for they have revealed their disdain for the very foundations of this Constitutional Republic that they have deceitfully sworn to preserve.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 02-24-2013 at 12:38 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    The NEO-Marxists (who decry the label "communist") controlling the Democrat Party ignore the time-tested axiom that every wave of an extemist poltical agenda produces a corresponding surge of political reaction.

    Their zeal is offset by blindness to the fact that the negative reaction coming their way will not be satisfied with merely stopping or slowing their "progress" this time for they have revealed their disdain for the very foundations of this Constitutional Republic that they have deceitfully sworn to preserve.
    Howdy Rush!
    I can't argue with that amigo! We've seen it before, and are going to enjoy seeing it again.
    Remember.... 94!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Liberal gun owners are not going to vote your way. Once you accept what a liberal is then you are then able to discern who the citizens are that vote on a single liberal issue and are not so much a liberal but more a libertarian and then hope to sway them to your side. It takes work, on the ground, to find these voters. The attempts to persuade them must continue.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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