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Thread: New,Unsafe Protocall at Gibralter Trade in Mount Clemens(gun show?)!

  1. #1
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb New,Unsafe Protocall at Gibralter Trade in Mount Clemens(gun show?)!

    I just returned from the gun show at the Gibralter Trade Center in Mount Clemens and must relay new gun Protocal!
    OCing as I always do,once I walked up to the gun check station I was informed of the new rules.Instead of unloading my gun in the sand barrel as was required in prior gun shows,a security guy ordered me to give him my loaded gun,for him to unload,while it was explained to me that "No loaded guns,in chamber,with mag in,were to come through the door"!He said it was fine to carry in the center beyond the doors,but in oreder to walk through the doors I would have to return to outside or to my vehicle,unload my gun,re-enter the center,gun unloaded or unarmed to enter the gun show doors!When I asked if the management ordered this he said they(security) made this rule!When I left,the security cut the strap and told me I couldn't reload until I was out of the center! When I got in my truck I noticed a yellow piece of paper that was handed out at the parking booth,which states "Attention Customers,When bringing firearms into a GUN AND KNIFE SHOW,please follow these simple steps:1.Bring firearm in with no ammo in firearm(no exceptions).2.Have firearm inspected and safety-strapped by security at entrance.3.We will not allow firearms to be unloaded at door.They must be unloaded prior to entering the facility.There is simply no room for error in a show of this size.THIS POLICY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL.
    First, all a criminal or madman has to do to enter is "say no" when asked,at the door, if they have a gun!
    Second,having not noticed the yellow piece of paper handed out at the parking booth,I was ordered to give my gun to a guy(stranger) with a security tee shirt,for him to unload My gun(load/unloading in a crowded place is unsafe no matter who does it.)!
    Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy, and the SCOTUS ruling "that a holstered gun IS NOT DANGEROUS"! The safest thing that can be done at any gun show,is to allow Law Abiding Citizens to Keep Their Guns in The Holster,untouched and NOT DANGEROUS!

    Thats My Safety Recommendation!Safe and Simple! I believe EVERYONE would be Polite as Always! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    My safety recommendation is not to go to the gibraltar shows.

  3. #3
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    My safety recommendation is not to go to the gibraltar shows.
    You have a point! I believe Civil Disobedience could also be used if You have a mind to!(PC-PO statement)!
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 02-17-2013 at 05:28 PM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Last time I was there, 3 years ago now, I would describe the way they treated us as arrogant and rude. Screw them. I won't be going back without a written apology from whoever runs those trashtastic shows, and yep, it'll be a cold day in hell when that happens.

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    You are seeing the results of those idiots who shot up those gun shows last month. Sad thing is that one of the idiots doing the shooting was reported to be a Police Officer who pulled the trigger on a shotgun he was "inspecting". Personally I would prefer that they not insist on those carrying for protection unloading their firearms because that does present a slight risk of a discharge. I'll also point out that they have always had those clearing barrels too high, it's safer to eject a loaded casing at waist height rather than chest height.

    However the Trade Centers are private property so they can set the rules any way they want to. So you can choose to either comply with the new rules or just stay away. Since it's about the only place to find primers and other reloading components right now so I'll just unload in my vehicle before heading in.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Simple fix- don't give money to people who don't care about your rights as a human being.

    If a show does not allow lawful carry, don't go. It's a Fuddapalooza; strictly for Fudds & loozas.

    If asked to disarm, do a 180, and give your money to local dealers who support your human rights.

    Simple fix.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    You have a point! I believe Civil Disobedience could also be used if You have a mind to!(PC-PO statement)!
    Is the property privately owned? Then it's not 'civil disobedience'- it's 'trespassing', illegal and a violation of the property owner's rights.

    If it is public property, we need to mount legal action.

    We don't trample others' rights to advance our own.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    I just returned from the gun show at the Gibralter Trade Center in Mount Clemens and must relay new gun Protocal!
    OCing as I always do,once I walked up to the gun check station I was informed of the new rules.Instead of unloading my gun in the sand barrel as was required in prior gun shows,a security guy ordered me to give him my loaded gun,for him to unload,while it was explained to me that "No loaded guns,in chamber,with mag in,were to come through the door"!He said it was fine to carry in the center beyond the doors,but in oreder to walk through the doors I would have to return to outside or to my vehicle,unload my gun,re-enter the center,gun unloaded or unarmed to enter the gun show doors!When I asked if the management ordered this he said they(security) made this rule!When I left,the security cut the strap and told me I couldn't reload until I was out of the center! When I got in my truck I noticed a yellow piece of paper that was handed out at the parking booth,which states "Attention Customers,When bringing firearms into a GUN AND KNIFE SHOW,please follow these simple steps:1.Bring firearm in with no ammo in firearm(no exceptions).2.Have firearm inspected and safety-strapped by security at entrance.3.We will not allow firearms to be unloaded at door.They must be unloaded prior to entering the facility.There is simply no room for error in a show of this size.THIS POLICY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL.
    First, all a criminal or madman has to do to enter is "say no" when asked,at the door, if they have a gun!
    Second,having not noticed the yellow piece of paper handed out at the parking booth,I was ordered to give my gun to a guy(stranger) with a security tee shirt,for him to unload My gun(load/unloading in a crowded place is unsafe no matter who does it.)!
    Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy, and the SCOTUS ruling "that a holstered gun IS NOT DANGEROUS"! The safest thing that can be done at any gun show,is to allow Law Abiding Citizens to Keep Their Guns in The Holster,untouched and NOT DANGEROUS!

    Thats My Safety Recommendation!Safe and Simple! I believe EVERYONE would be Polite as Always! CARRY ON!
    no such scotus ruling
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  9. #9
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    no such scotus ruling
    I guess I must have misread the ruling eh! I'll have to re-find it!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    you might be thinking of the AG opinion. which is just that. it's not legally binding until tested in a court of law.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy
    This is a good idea. Something like a "Joint Communications Committee" the MI gun orgs form between themselves, to draft and finalize certain kinds of repeatedly used messages which they all agree to endorse. There is more power to a message coming from all gun orgs, rather than one of them or separately from them.

    I'm curious if MCRGO, MGO, or other MI gun orgs have discussed this good idea amongst themselves.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way
    Why would CLSD send them a letter? They support the policy. They support it by renting a booth at the Gibraltar shows to sell their books. Can't bite the hand that feeds.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamaneggs View Post
    I just returned from the gun show at the Gibralter Trade Center in Mount Clemens and must relay new gun Protocal!
    OCing as I always do,once I walked up to the gun check station I was informed of the new rules.Instead of unloading my gun in the sand barrel as was required in prior gun shows,a security guy ordered me to give him my loaded gun,for him to unload,while it was explained to me that "No loaded guns,in chamber,with mag in,were to come through the door"!He said it was fine to carry in the center beyond the doors,but in oreder to walk through the doors I would have to return to outside or to my vehicle,unload my gun,re-enter the center,gun unloaded or unarmed to enter the gun show doors!When I asked if the management ordered this he said they(security) made this rule!When I left,the security cut the strap and told me I couldn't reload until I was out of the center! When I got in my truck I noticed a yellow piece of paper that was handed out at the parking booth,which states "Attention Customers,When bringing firearms into a GUN AND KNIFE SHOW,please follow these simple steps:1.Bring firearm in with no ammo in firearm(no exceptions).2.Have firearm inspected and safety-strapped by security at entrance.3.We will not allow firearms to be unloaded at door.They must be unloaded prior to entering the facility.There is simply no room for error in a show of this size.THIS POLICY IS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL.
    First, all a criminal or madman has to do to enter is "say no" when asked,at the door, if they have a gun!
    Second,having not noticed the yellow piece of paper handed out at the parking booth,I was ordered to give my gun to a guy(stranger) with a security tee shirt,for him to unload My gun(load/unloading in a crowded place is unsafe no matter who does it.)!
    Third, I think MOC Inc.,MGO,MCRGO,CLSD etc. should notify management, in a unified way,of the unsafe policy, and the SCOTUS ruling "that a holstered gun IS NOT DANGEROUS"! The safest thing that can be done at any gun show,is to allow Law Abiding Citizens to Keep Their Guns in The Holster,untouched and NOT DANGEROUS!

    Thats My Safety Recommendation!Safe and Simple! I believe EVERYONE would be Polite as Always! CARRY ON!
    I would happily provide him a free inspection of my middle finger before walking briskly in the other direction. Nobody is touching my gun unless its my idea, period.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Why would CLSD send them a letter? They support the policy. They support it by renting a booth at the Gibraltar shows to sell their books. Can't bite the hand that feeds.
    I have heard it suggested that MOC get booths at these fudapaloozas as well. Just because they have a booth does not mean they agree with the policy.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    I have heard it suggested that MOC get booths at these fudapaloozas as well. Just because they have a booth does not mean they agree with the policy.
    So CLSD giving them money by renting booths and going along with the policy isn't supporting it? What would you consider it?

    MOC doesn't get a booth there for a reason.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Here the idea of MOC getting a table was asked http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...ic,2370.0.html the poll at the top says 85% would be for MOC getting a table. So obviously the idea isn't that far fetched is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    So CLSD giving them money by renting booths and going along with the policy isn't supporting it? What would you consider it?

    MOC doesn't get a booth there for a reason.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Here the idea of MOC getting a table was asked http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...ic,2370.0.html the poll at the top says 85% would be for MOC getting a table. So obviously the idea isn't that far fetched is it?
    I don't give two ***** about that poll or "how far fetched" the idea is. MOC has not ever had a table at an event where loaded open carry wasn't allowed. So why are you dragging MOC into that area of the discussion?? Why don't you answer the question I posed to you.

    We always talk about "supporting" business's who support open carry. We also say we shouldn't support anti-OC business's. The support we talk about is money, whether to shop there or not.

    So if a gun group pays for a table at an anti-OC show, they are supporting the policy. No?
    Last edited by scot623; 02-18-2013 at 12:40 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    So you are denying that MOC leadership has discussed getting a table at one of these gun shows? I am not dragging anything into anywhere.
    "This topic came up during our leadership meeting this evening. The topic was droning on and there were impassioned opinions on each side. For the sake of getting on with the business of the meeting I asked people to take the discussion to the Forum. Well, here's the thread, discuss -- someone start!

    Topic: Should we (Michigan Open Carry, Inc.) go to gun shows and get a table to promote our organization if said gun shows don't permit the lawful carry of a holstered, loaded handgun(open or concealed) without unloading the gun and zip tying the trigger or otherwise disabling the firearm?" as to the underlined part of your quote MOC at least considered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I don't give two ***** about that poll or "how far fetched" the idea is. MOC has not ever had a table at an event where loaded open carry wasn't allowed. So why are you dragging MOC into that area of the discussion?? Why don't you answer the question I posed to you.

    We always talk about "supporting" business's who support open carry. We also say we shouldn't support anti-OC business's. The support we talk about is money, whether to shop there or not.

    So if a gun group pays for a table at an anti-OC show, they are supporting the policy. No?
    Last edited by Raggs; 02-18-2013 at 03:13 PM.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    So you are denying that MOC leadership has discussed getting a table at one of these gun shows? I am not dragging anything into anywhere.
    "This topic came up during our leadership meeting this evening. The topic was droning on and there were impassioned opinions on each side. For the sake of getting on with the business of the meeting I asked people to take the discussion to the Forum. Well, here's the thread, discuss -- someone start!

    Topic: Should we (Michigan Open Carry, Inc.) go to gun shows and get a table to promote our organization if said gun shows don't permit the lawful carry of a holstered, loaded handgun(open or concealed) without unloading the gun and zip tying the trigger or otherwise disabling the firearm?"
    Show me where I deny anything. I'll wait.

    So now it's two posts by you since I asked you a simple question, and you've failed to answer it. Why?

  20. #20
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I don't give two ***** about that poll or "how far fetched" the idea is. MOC has not ever had a table at an event where loaded open carry wasn't allowed. So why are you dragging MOC into that area of the discussion?? Why don't you answer the question I posed to you.

    We always talk about "supporting" business's who support open carry. We also say we shouldn't support anti-OC business's. The support we talk about is money, whether to shop there or not.

    So if a gun group pays for a table at an anti-OC show, they are supporting the policy. No?
    First, that poll was because I challenged the MOC leadership on the issue, so you want to kick someone, have at it. Second, at Gibralter in Taylor MOC can get a table for free provided we do not sell merchandise. Third, it is a great place to look for members and while at it we could disseminate information for how patrons could contact the promoter to pressure them to change their policy. After all by telling a business you will not support them with your money if they don't support your rights is what you state you already do. Tell me how that is working, one or two people a month doing that? Now what if we could get 50 to 100 people at every gun show the promoter puts on pushing to get rid of their policy?

    Now let the flaming of me begin.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  21. #21
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    New,Unsafe Protocall at Gibralter Trade in Mount Clemens(gun show?)!

    I started the thread simply to gather information on the topic. I try my best (like a good Roberts Rule of order chair) to remain neutral in discussion.

    My post was intended to not show a disposition on my part one way or the other.
    Last edited by TheQ; 02-18-2013 at 01:24 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  22. #22
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    Patron "Hi Mr Gibraltar, I recently paid to enter a gun show hosted at your facility. I paid to enter even though they wouldn't allow me to carry a loaded gun. I want you to change your policy so I can carry a loaded gun next time. Thanks."

    Response "Hello patron, Why should we change the policy to allow loaded carry? You obviously didn't care enough last time because you still paid to enter. Why should I trust you won't just pay to enter again when we don't change the policy? Oh by the way, thanks for paying the entrance fee, I just bought a new boat because all you gun guys sell out your convictions just to buy overpriced ammo. Suckers."

  23. #23
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, All I said was that it had been discussed and then Scott623 took issue with that. I am not attacking anyone. I was simply pointing out that just because a group has a table at the fudapalooza did not mean they were for all policies anymore than MOC if they decided to have a table there would be. I am not kicking EZ theQ or anyone else.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  24. #24
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Gentlemen, All I said was that it had been discussed and then Scott623 took issue with that. I am not attacking anyone. I was simply pointing out that just because a group has a table at the fudapalooza did not mean they were for all policies anymore than MOC if they decided to have a table there would be. I am not kicking EZ theQ or anyone else.
    Didn't say you were, I just wanted to be sure that everyone knew the post that was cited was largely because of an idea I had, not MOC. God knows they get lit up enough already for stuff, so I didn't want to have another baseless accusation for some to seize upon.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  25. #25
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Patron "Hi Mr Gibraltar, I recently paid to enter a gun show hosted at your facility. I paid to enter even though they wouldn't allow me to carry a loaded gun. I want you to change your policy so I can carry a loaded gun next time. Thanks."

    Response "Hello patron, Why should we change the policy to allow loaded carry? You obviously didn't care enough last time because you still paid to enter. Why should I trust you won't just pay to enter again when we don't change the policy? Oh by the way, thanks for paying the entrance fee, I just bought a new boat because all you gun guys sell out your convictions just to buy overpriced ammo. Suckers."
    You don't send missionaries to the believers; you send them to the uninformed...

    I see no problem with taking the opportunity to make a few 'converts', provided it doesn't line the pockets of those who would oppress us.

    As far as actually giving the promoters any of my hard earned money, NEVER, EVER, EVER. No money for those who would trample our rights- not one penny. Vote with your wallets and your feet.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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