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Thread: Pot and Pistols

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    Pot and Pistols

    WHY would Dear Leader in DC and his cronies be FOR legalizing pot?

    Does that have anything to do with firearms? Betcha-behind it does.

    WHY would Oba-MAo and his minions turn down the chance to control anything?

    Why in the States? Just to give people freedom?

    When does totalitarian Government want to do so?

    Its not about pot.

    Recall the last NICS form you filled out to buy a gun from a dealer? What was the FIRST question?

    Let me paraphrase it:

    "DO YOU USE POT"?

    Get it?

    Legalise pot, deny firearm purchases. Oba-Mao is a Left wing radical bent on disarming Americans.
    This is a SLICK ploy to get part of that done.

    So someone doesnt admit it on the form? thats what DATABASES are for...

    When two things like gun control and this coincide like that, then..

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I think it asks if you are addicted to MJ. People will just lie and say they are not addicted. Is MJ even addicting?

    It also asks if you are a fugitive from justice and other stupid questions. The form is not about disqualifying people from purchasing firearms. The logic behind it is the same in using the "sporting purposes" language. It's about people becoming acclimated to a right being treated like a privilege.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

    First off, if marijuana was legal, you couldn't possibly be an unlawful user of it. Also, marijuana is not addictive. The question would have to be amended, or the marijuana reference would be a completely moot point.

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    If a person wants to shove THC into their body or anything else I say : have at it...

    what do I care? Portugal allows anything ... drug problems no worse than anywhere else


    (my expected or predicted response to one who may note my post)

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or ..."

    First off, if marijuana was legal, you couldn't possibly be an unlawful user of it. ...
    Bingo.

    Next.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I think it asks if you are addicted to MJ. People will just lie and say they are not addicted. Is MJ even addicting?

    It also asks if you are a fugitive from justice and other stupid questions. The form is not about disqualifying people from purchasing firearms. The logic behind it is the same in using the "sporting purposes" language. It's about people becoming acclimated to a right being treated like a privilege.
    I know several "burn-outs" who are obviously no addicted to pot.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

    First off, if marijuana was legal, you couldn't possibly be an unlawful user of it. Also, marijuana is not addictive. The question would have to be amended, or the marijuana reference would be a completely moot point.
    Good disposal of another silly idea.

    There are real problems out there to address. Why the OP keeps targeting this silly stuff is beyond me.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Good disposal of another silly idea.

    There are real problems out there to address. Why the OP keeps targeting this silly stuff is beyond me.
    I am not a "pot" user. But I do see the federal government's unconstitutional restriction of a substance someone puts into their own body as a major symptom of of their overreaching. So to me it isn't silly.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_patriot@ymail.com View Post
    WHY would Dear Leader in DC and his cronies be FOR legalizing pot?
    lol. He's not. Not even close.

    Where do you get your this stuff from, anyway?

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I am not a "pot" user. But I do see the federal government's unconstitutional restriction of a substance someone puts into their own body as a major symptom of of their overreaching. So to me it isn't silly.
    +1

    It's not "silly" at all.

    In fact, what's "silly" are folks who can't see beyond their own horizon, and realize that these issues do have the potential to affect everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I am not a "pot" user. But I do see the federal government's unconstitutional restriction of a substance [bolding mine] someone puts into their own body as a major symptom of of their overreaching. So to me it isn't silly.
    That is not the silly idea that I was lamenting from the OP.

    The OP's point is silly.

    Yours is not. I agree that the feds should not be regulating drugs, except for (very specifically) their interstate commerce. I have no problem with States and localities regulating them.

    I only post this to dispel the notion that I said that you disagreement the bolded part is silly. I said no such thing.

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I am not a "pot" user. But I do see the federal government's unconstitutional restriction of a substance someone puts into their own body as a major symptom of of their overreaching. So to me it isn't silly.
    100% Agree here. People should have the right to do as they please so long as they are not hurting anyone else. "Pot" could be easily managed simular to beer and whine, and lord knows I've met enough people in my life that are burnt out on those too. So whats the difference? If they are not hurting anyone else, leave em alone.

    - I also dont see any connection between legalizing pot, and the Second Amendment.

    - I support Liberty.
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    just as there is no connection between drinking alcohol and the 2A.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Good disposal of another silly idea.

    There are real problems out there to address. Why the OP keeps targeting this silly stuff is beyond me.
    While I do not particularly care about MJ, I do find it silly for you to keep trying to decide what other legitimate members can post about.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    While I do not particularly care about MJ, I do find it silly for you to keep trying to decide what other legitimate members can post about.
    I'll assume it's because the OP's conclusion didn't connect with the reality. As I stated if marijuana was made legal, it would not fit within the question on the form asking if you are an unlawful user of it. The OP's entire premise was that Obama wanted to legalize marijuana that way they would fail the question and no longer be able to purchase firearms. Although members can post about whatever they like, it's usually best to not have your entire post based on a falsehood.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    I'll assume it's because the OP's conclusion didn't connect with the reality. As I stated if marijuana was made legal, it would not fit within the question on the form asking if you are an unlawful user of it. The OP's entire premise was that Obama wanted to legalize marijuana that way they would fail the question and no longer be able to purchase firearms. Although members can post about whatever they like, it's usually best to not have your entire post based on a falsehood.
    While I agree with you that OP was confusing, or just didn't make sense. But eye had options, not read, not post, or do what you just did above. Many times he has good points, but he absolutely blows it by then posting nonsense trying to rule other members. If he wants to moderate he should approach the owners and ask for a job. Otherwise he should just bugger off.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Pot and Pistols

    Quote Originally Posted by ADobbs1989 View Post
    I'll assume it's because the OP's conclusion didn't connect with the reality. As I stated if marijuana was made legal, it would not fit within the question on the form asking if you are an unlawful user of it. The OP's entire premise was that Obama wanted to legalize marijuana that way they would fail the question and no longer be able to purchase firearms. Although members can post about whatever they like, it's usually best to not have your entire post based on a falsehood.
    Exactly.

    I am not saying what anyone can or cannot post. I am expressing a judgment about the silliness of the post. If a certain poster doesn't like my expressing such judgments, I'd ask him why he hypocritically feels that he should!

    It's actually quite humorous that he does.


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  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    That is not the silly idea that I was lamenting from the OP.

    The OP's point is silly.

    Yours is not. I agree that the feds should not be regulating drugs, except for (very specifically) their interstate commerce. I have no problem with States and localities regulating them.

    I only post this to dispel the notion that I said that you disagreement the bolded part is silly. I said no such thing.
    This is why Frank discussion is good. And glad you clarified.
    I didn't mean my post to be an attack but a jumping off point to clarify my position on the subject and how serious any overstepping of rights may be, and to me all rights are connected we can't fight for one and ignore the others.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Not that I agree with the OPs assertion, if pot was legalized and well regulated, it would free up law enforcement for other tasks (like enforcing current firearm laws concerning illegal use) and provide a new tax revenue stream.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Not that I agree with the OPs assertion, if pot was legalized and well regulated, it would free up law enforcement for other tasks (like enforcing current firearm laws concerning illegal use) and provide a new tax revenue stream.
    If pot AND gun laws were stricken from the books, revenue could be diverted to prisons to actually keep violent criminals locked up. Same for more revenue for mental health facilities.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Pot and Pistols

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    This is why Frank discussion is good. And glad you clarified.
    I didn't mean my post to be an attack but a jumping off point to clarify my position on the subject and how serious any overstepping of rights may be, and to me all rights are connected we can't fight for one and ignore the others.
    I didn't take your post as an attack. I was afraid that you thought I was calling your idea silly.

    We don't always agree, but I don't find your ideas to be silly. Rational disagreement is possible.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Not that I agree with the OPs assertion, if pot was legalized and well regulated, it would free up law enforcement for other tasks (like enforcing current firearm laws concerning illegal use) and provide a new tax revenue stream.
    A liberal that desires the state to enforce laws that are likely unconstitutional.....typical. The use of a gun (weapon) should not be a "aggravating factor" of the base offense. This promotes the false premise that a gun (weapon) is the problem and not the person who broke the law.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    if pot was legalized and well regulated, it would ...SNIP... provide a new tax revenue stream.
    It really disgusts me when people say this. What they really mean, of course, is that it needs to be specially regulated and taxed.

    Allowing it to be sold in stores guarantees a normal sales tax (right there the worst part about legalization: our governments do not need more "revenue streams" to prolong the pain), and assuming a minimalist position of not selling it to minors (as with tobacco or alcohol) is, quite literally, infinitely more regulation than exists presently, as ought to be more than adequate in light of how utterly harmless marijuana is without any regulation to speak of.

    I've learned there are two types of folks who support marijuana legalization: there is the first camp, who oppose prohibition because it exists contrary to right, because we have a literal human rights crisis with regard to the number of individuals incarcerated for non-crime offenses, and because the war on drugs "needed" to enforce prohibition has all kinds of nasty side-effects. Then you have the second camp, who support legalization because they have fantasies of a regulatory apparatus and more tax revenue.

    If it weren't for the aforementioned human rights crisis, I would not tolerate, much less pursue, legalization at the cost of the conditions imposed by the second camp.

    Incidentally, I've observed that progressives always fall into the second camp. This, I think, reveals to a great degree how feigned and artificial their façade of "compassion" is – it ought to be enough to end the ongoing aggressive deprivation of rights to hundreds of thousands of folks (not to mention that the majority of them are underprivileged and minorities). But, no, the progressive's "compassion" is nowhere to be found unless it's tied to taxes and regulatory apparatus; it never exits solely for the sake of the downtrodden. This is the height of selfishness.

    Whereas libertarians, who do advocate legalization based solely on the sake of the downtrodden, are portrayed as selfish and indifferent to the plight of the poor and minorities. (We're lucky if they don't accuse us of being marijuana users simply for taking a principled stand.)

    Now, these progressives can make all the BS claims they like. I've heard them all, the most common being: "tax and regulate" is merely the most convenient avenue in the current political climate. This is baloney. The easiest, most direct path (in states which have such) is through the referendum process, which results usually in a distinct lack of specific regulation, leaving that for subsequent legislative efforts. So, I submit that, when folks advocate "tax and regulate", rather than black-check legalization for its own sake, their true concern is the secondary process – the opportunity for legislative action on an area of life previously prohibited outright – rather than the democratic referendums which simply abolish prohibition in accordance with the manifest will of the American people.

    People who think like that truly disgust me.

    Legalize it. Do not tax it beyond sales tax. Do not regulate it beyond tobacco or alcohol (actually, regulate it less than alcohol – it's still a felony to distill liquor without paying the appropriate, very expensive, tax).

    One day, before I die, I want to walk around, OC, in a farmers' market where fresh marijuana is for sale. Then I will know that I live in the freest place that has existed, at the very least, in my lifetime. It is my belief that if the regulationists get their way, this will be an impossibility.

    (This post is on-topic because I was OC in my fantasy. )
    Last edited by marshaul; 02-19-2013 at 11:29 AM.

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    "A liberal that desires the state to enforce laws that are likely unconstitutional.....typical".
    So laws that punish convicted felons for possesing/using a firearm are , in your opinion, unconstitutional and therefore not worthy of enforcement? So much for enforcing laws that are already on the books.

    I could envision 3 different tax rates. If the pot is consumed it would be taxed as alcohol. If it were used as a cotton/wood replacement, ie. worn or written on, it would be taxed at a lower rate than the consumption tax. If it were used as a petroleum product replacement, it would provide a tax advantage. Revenue from these taxes would be split between the Fed and the states with a good portion of this revenue earmarked for education and infrastructure maintenance. They could reassign some of the DEA agents previously involved in marijuana interdiction to border patrol duties.

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    "A liberal that desires the state to enforce laws that are likely unconstitutional.....typical".
    So laws that punish convicted felons for possesing/using a firearm are , in your opinion, unconstitutional and therefore not worthy of enforcement? So much for enforcing laws that are already on the books.

    I could envision 3 different tax rates. If the pot is consumed it would be taxed as alcohol. If it were used as a cotton/wood replacement, ie. worn or written on, it would be taxed at a lower rate than the consumption tax. If it were used as a petroleum product replacement, it would provide a tax advantage. Revenue from these taxes would be split between the Fed and the states with a good portion of this revenue earmarked for education and infrastructure maintenance. They could reassign some of the DEA agents previously involved in marijuana interdiction to border patrol duties.
    Yes those laws are very much unconstitutional. But there are other constitutional laws, most that have nothing to do with a inanimate object, but behavior that are not being enforced enough. Only pot in commerce should be taxed, and then only reasonably, a stupid tax is what made it illegal in the first place.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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