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Thread: Open Carry (OC) vs Concealed Carry (CCW) (CPL)

  1. #1
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    Open Carry (OC) vs Concealed Carry (CCW) (CPL)

    Hello Everyone,

    Little background info: I am 23 years old living in Detroit. I was born and raised here in Michigan.
    I just finished taking my CPL Course. I have never owned a firearm. Just curious to know my rights.

    I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I have read many threads regarding the difference between having a CPL a.k.a. (CCW)
    which requries a license and Open Carry which requires no license. I just want to know the difference between the two in details. I do
    know the basics like Open Carry must be visible to the public and have lots of restricted zones, whereas a CPL holder can conceal the
    weapon. Basically I want to know what are the advantages of having a CPL (which allows to open carry and conceal carry) over the open
    carry law which only allows firearm visibility.

    1. With a CPL, what places can I OPEN CARRY that a regular person can't without a CPL?

    2. If I have a CPL I'm carrying concealed under my shirt on my back, what happens if the public sees it?
    Will I get in trouble....... or is it ok for it to be shown since Michigan has Open Carry law?

    3. I live close by to the Police Station, what happens if I'm spotted open carrying a firearm. What do I say and do I get in trouble because I live near the police station?

    4. Off Topic: Should I get a Springfield XDMc, Glock 19 or S&W M&Pc ?

    __________________________________________________ _________________________________

    EDIT: Additional Info found on http://miopencarry.weebly.com/

    PLACES off limits to firearms without a CPL: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank. b) A church. c) A court. d) A theatre. e) A sports arena. f) A day care center. g) A hospital. h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act (BAR). (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    b) A peace officer.
    c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. (Does this include me a CPL holder)?
    d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law.
    Last edited by CuriousCitizen; 02-18-2013 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Additional Info

  2. #2
    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Questions 1 -3 are state-specific and should be asked in the Michigan State sub-forum.

    Question 4: Have you handled and fired any of those? You have to get whatever feels best to you. Everyone has their preferences and favorites. Go rent and/or borrow a few, get educated in their function and design, and fire them. Then you'll be able to decide for yourself what you like best for you.

    +Welcome to OCDO!

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCitizen View Post
    <snip> 4. Off Topic: Should I get a Springfield XDMc, Glock 19 or S&W M&Pc ? <snip>
    Buy American. Made in America does not necessarily mean that it is completely American. This is why all of my pistols are old-er.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCitizen View Post
    1. With a CPL, what places can I OPEN CARRY that a regular person can't without a CPL?
    Schools--750.237a

    (4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:
    (a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.
    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.
    (c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.
    (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.
    (b) A peace officer.
    (c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    However, even though a CPL is required the firearm must be carried openly because 28.425o prohibits concealed carry in a school.

    (1) Subject to subsection (5), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.


    Hmmm, Michigan Open Carry is usually better at keeping their facts straight. That synopsis of the law has a pretty big error. Without a CPL we are prohibited from possessing a firearm in any place licensed to sell alcohol...NOT just a bar or tavern but any license to sell any type of alcohol in any capacity.

    750.234d

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    . . .


    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    That section of law given in (h) is the entire liquor control act so any business licensed to sell alcohol in any capacity is off limits for OC without a CPL. If you do a little more research you'll find that Act No. 8 blah blah blah of 1933 has been repealed. It has however been replaced with a successor act that contains this little gem:

    436.2303

    (5) A reference in any other law to the Michigan Liquor control act, 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8, being MCL 436.1 to 436.58, is considered to be a reference to this act.

    (6) A reference to a provision in former 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8 is considered to be a reference to the successor provision in this act. A reference in any application, document, authorization, order, license, or other document issued or provided by the commission or its authorized agent to former 1933 (Ex Sess) PA 8 is considered to be a reference to this act.
    So they made sure they were covered. That error is exactly why it's normally best to go straight to the source, being Michigan's Compiled Laws (MCL) which can be searched here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(l5q...aspx?page=Home

    The rest of the places you as a CPL holder may OC where a non-CPL holder may not are listed in your edit, FYI the law that is referenced in the synopsis is MCL 750.234d which I've linked above. Oh, don't try to OC in a court regardless of your CPL. They get to make their own rules per a MI Supreme Court Admin. Order.


    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCitizen View Post
    2. If I have a CPL I'm carrying concealed under my shirt on my back, what happens if the public sees it?
    Will I get in trouble....... or is it ok for it to be shown since Michigan has Open Carry law?


    You will be fine in that situation. As to the bold statement...MI has no "open carry law." You will not find a law anywhere on MI's books that states open carry is legal. That's not how laws work. Laws generally prohibit something. OC is legal because we have no law that prohibits us from doing it, just as we have no law that prohibits a gun "printing" through a shirt and no law that prohibits a CC cover garment from sporting a snazzy purple paisley print. All of those things are legal by default because we have no laws making them illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCitizen View Post
    3. I live close by to the Police Station, what happens if I'm spotted open carrying a firearm. What do I say and do I get in trouble because I live near the police station?


    Not trying to be a dink here but use the search feature I linked above and try to find a law that prohibits you from carrying a firearm near a police station. I'll help you out....there isn't one. As we discussed earlier, if there is no law making something illegal then it's legal.

    Welcome to the forums.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    ......if there is no law making something illegal then it's legal.
    That basically says it all.

    I really thank you for taking your time to answer my questions and clarifying things. I'm sure many people will benefit from your answers and advice. I feel more confident now and will continue to research until I am even more confident of any concerns that may arise. Again, Thank you very much Bronson for your time.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. Asking what YOU think is a "dumb" question is MUCH better than being charged with a felony.
    I would also suggest to check here or MOC for any Open Carry (OC) events in your area. Also, if there is a time that you know is available some time in the future and feel that you are not quite ready to OC on your own, start a thread asking if anyone would be willing to join you. Once you OC and see the general lack of concern shown by others, you will wonder why you never did it before.

    Welcome to OPEN CARRY in Michigan!
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCitizen View Post
    I just want to know the difference between the two in details.
    Read this thread:

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...opic,25.0.html
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousCitizen View Post
    That basically says it all.

    I really thank you for taking your time to answer my questions and clarifying things. I'm sure many people will benefit from your answers and advice. I feel more confident now and will continue to research until I am even more confident of any concerns that may arise. Again, Thank you very much Bronson for your time.
    No problem. We have our arguments around here but at the end of the day we're here to help each other.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

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