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Thread: Son of SB 59 Introduced

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Son of SB 59 Introduced

    The "Son of SB 59" has been dropped (legislative speak for introduced). The bill number should be published within the next day.

    The new SB 59 will:

    1. Eliminate all PFZs (no additional training required) except K-12 schools, hospitals, and churches will remain as PFZs.
    2. Move CPL issuance to the Michigan State Police. County Clerk shall remain the point of application and issuance.
    3. Reduce the price of CPL by $15 to $90. Fingerprints will not be required for a renewal. First time issuance shall get their fingerprints taken by a law enforcement agency who may charge you up to $15 for fingerprinting. Net effect is a renewal will cost you $15 less.
    4. Remaining PFZs (K-12 schools, hospitals, and churches) will be able to "opt-in" to allow people to conceal carry, much like what is available at present for churches.

    The newly introduced bill will NOT (unlike SB 59):
    1. Require any additional new training.
    2. Compromise Open Carry

    Michigan Open Carry, Inc. is proud to partner with Senator Green (Bill sponsor) and his office. We will be behind him, giving him the needed grass roots support.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    So far so good, I could in good conscience back this as it is, if the conditions stated are accurate.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Son of SB 59 Introduced

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    So far so good, I could in good conscience back this as it is, if the conditions stated are accurate.
    This is what I've been holding back saying all along because I couldn't/and it was in flux.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Well we don't want to rehash this do we?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    This is what I've been holding back saying all along because I couldn't/and it was in flux.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  5. #5
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Son of SB 59 Introduced
    Phil, thanks for the update. Like many, curious to read the details. Will do asap. Thanks Phil, MOC, and Sen. Green!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Son of SB 59 Introduced

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Well we don't want to rehash this do we?
    Entirely up to you. I'll just sit back and watch
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Entirely up to you. I'll just sit back and watch
    very classy, you da man
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  8. #8
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    I know many here will be against this "compromise", but I think it's a pretty good bill overall. The question is how many concessions will snyder want to even consider it?
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    Am I reading this right ? The state police dept will aprove or deny the CPL ? If so that's better news for me, cause Ottawa county has it in for me for some reason.
    Last edited by casper; 02-19-2013 at 12:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Son of SB 59 Introduced

    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    Am I reading this right ? The state police dept will aprove or deny the CPL ? If so that's better news for me, cause Ottawa county has it in for me for some reason.
    It appears so, however from what Q posted it is still up to them to hand it off to you. Do not be startled if it gets lost at their office -"somehow"? Overall from what's been posted this bill looks good. Hope RINO Rick does not veto it...
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Son of SB 59 Introduced

    300 posts of butthurt in prior threads now only 9 posts on this one?

    Guess it took wind out of many sails...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Secrecy does that, get everything out in the open and everyone is happy!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    300 posts of butthurt in prior threads now only 9 posts on this one?

    Guess it took wind out of many sails...
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  13. #13
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    AND can we please retire "butt hurt", it is a stupid sounding phrase.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  14. #14
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    300 posts of butthurt in prior threads now only 9 posts on this one?

    Guess it took wind out of many sails...
    The bill seems relatively non-controversial at this point. Where there's little controversy, there's little wind of dissent blowing. Is there something really controversial about the bill that we missed?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Son of SB 59 Introduced

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    The bill seems relatively non-controversial at this point. Where there's little controversy, there's little wind of dissent blowing. Is there something really controversial about the bill that we missed?
    Forgot to mention, it eliminates all unlicensed OC.....
    Last edited by TheQ; 02-19-2013 at 05:12 PM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  16. #16
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    AND can we please retire "butt hurt", it is a stupid sounding phrase.
    I like it. It's funny and makes me laugh when I see it. I own it, too. Proud to say I get butthurt about the prospect of losing gun rights. D*mn right, I do!

    I think if *every* gun owner got butthurt and, as a result, got vocal with their representatives and maybe even active in gun rights, we would have a much larger army of advocates than we do now, and we could do a lot more things to both advance gun rights and stop threats to it.

    I'm all for butthurt. It does wonders to motivate people. We need more of it in the gun owner population.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  17. #17
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Secrecy does that, get everything out in the open and everyone is happy!
    The nature of my work requires I not say everything I know. I'm sure you'd like to hear all or nothing. Others may like to hear what I can say of what I know when I can say it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    AND can we please retire "butt hurt", it is a stupid sounding phrase.
    I'll stop using the phrase, if ppl stop with the butthurt.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I think if *every* gun owner got butthurt and, as a result, got vocal with their representatives and maybe even active in gun rights, we would have a much larger army of advocates than we do now, and we could do a lot more things to both advance gun rights and stop threats to it.

    Agreed. Sad fact is: most people are lazy.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Forgot to mention, it eliminates all unlicensed OC.....
    So we need a CPL to OC then ?

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    AND can we please retire "butt hurt", it is a stupid sounding phrase.
    I nominate 'battered bum' as a replacement. 'Sorear' is my second choice....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  21. #21
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    So we need a CPL to OC then ?
    Yes. All OC without a CPL will be an instant felony. I hear they are planning to bring back capital punishment in Michigan just for this crime.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Yes. All OC without a CPL will be an instant felony. I hear they are planning to bring back capital punishment in Michigan just for this crime.
    Please tell me that's sarcasim. I don't have a CPL, so I was going to open carry for a while.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casper View Post
    Please tell me that's sarcasim. I don't have a CPL, so I was going to open carry for a while.
    Do you prefer:
    • Lethal Injection
    • Gas Chamber
    • Electric Chair
    • Firing Squad
    • Beheading


    Your pick -- they are being quite generous.


    Evidently you missed the memo on purple?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  24. #24
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Do you prefer:
    • Lethal Injection
    • Gas Chamber
    • Electric Chair
    • Firing Squad
    • Beheading


    Your pick -- they are being quite generous.


    Evidently you missed the memo on purple?
    is there no option for execution by elephant like they use to do in SE Asia? If not, there is no way I can support this bill!
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 02-19-2013 at 05:32 PM.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

  25. #25
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Son of SB 59 Introduced

    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    is there no option for execution by elephant like they use to do in SE Asia? If not, there is no way I can support this bill!
    Sorry, no...but I can ask for that in an amendment...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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