Can we reload for self defense?

I carry factory ammo and keep the box with the lot numbers in my safe. If I ever have to use my weapon defensively I don't want anything that could give the prosecutor extra "ammo" against me. Why risk it?

If I used hand loaded ammo I would expect the prosecutor to use that to show the jury I wanted to make my ammo more lethal, or something equally silly. Since I don't get a choice in the jury I would hate to get people who don't have any firearms experience and might use that info to find me guilty of something.

A good shoot is a good shoot...

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Not being an Massad Ayoob groupie, I'll have to take your word for what he says but it isn't his phone number in my cell phone and he won't be the one to defend me if I need someone.

I'll stick with Dan's advice and worry more about the situation instead of what's in my gun.

There are always stories like this. And they are probably true. That doesn't mean they are the correct application of law, or that the same thing would happen to you.

I hear so many "wives tale" laws, I think we should start a thread for them, just to have a good place where we can shed light and cites to actual law.

TFred

TFred said:

There are always stories like this. And they are probably true. That doesn't mean they are the correct application of law, or that the same thing would happen to you.

I hear so many "wives tale" laws, I think we should start a thread for them, just to have a good place where we can shed light and cites to actual law.

TFred

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Massad Ayoob and Peter Hathaway Capstick have two things in common TFred.

1. Both want to sell what they write and both have a lot of white space to fill.

2. Neither practice law in Virginia.

Capstick is more entertaining though.

mobeewan said:

I don't have a link as I read it in Combat Handguns years ago and it is the reason I only carry factory loads.

However I have a link for some other cases that went bad for some one carrying reloads straight from Ayoob himself. See post no 140.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2129976#post2129976

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Recall reading the same thing myself.

Maas is good and highly recognized by many, but he is not THE expert on all matters relating to RKBA. He is quite good at promoting his opinions and classes.

He does not endorse open carry either from what I have read. Wonder how many from here would cease that practice based upon his "expert" opinion?

I agree with Peter Nap in that I will base my choice on what someone like User offers who is well schooled in Va law, rather than those of a LEO from another state. ymmv

mobeewan said:

I don't have a link as I read it in Combat Handguns years ago and it is the reason I only carry factory loads.

However I have a link for some other cases that went bad for some one carrying reloads straight from Ayoob himself. See post no 140.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2129976#post2129976

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A forum thread is not a source, not even close. I agree with GS and trust Users judgement far above a person who gives advice for money and says what his opinions are. If he had facts to support them he would not sell them as opinions.

There is nothing even in the law close to indicating a person would be charged solely for the use of legal ammo that happened to be hand loaded. And the presumption is if it is not illegal, then it is legal.

WalkingWolf said:

...There is nothing even in the law close to indicating a person would be charged solely for the use of legal ammo that happened to be hand loaded. And the presumption is if it is not illegal, then it is legal.

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However, the rumors I remember hearing about was that it was the civil trial where it made a difference. Again, that was the rumor, and I still don't know of a case where it made the difference.

I'll say it again: in a case arising out of a defensive shooting, the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room will be the fact that you shot someone. You either had the necessity to shoot and possibly kill, or you did not. There are several reasons why you might have had a good reason: self defense, defense of others, stopping a serious felony in progress, defense of habitation, etc.

The reason this issue comes up is that defense attorneys who don't understand the law of personal defense feel they have to dance around the issue of the shooting itself, on the assumption that it was bad and evil, in and of itself. If you need to shoot someone, you need to go into trial believing that it was good, just, and true, and so are you. You need to be able to get on the witness stand and explain why it was good, just, and true, and if you can do that, then it makes not a shred of difference whether you enhanced the trigger pull, swapped out the springs, used a laser, used high-performance defensive ammunition, or were eating bananas at the time.

The only time anything like that could be relevant is at sentencing, and you don't want to get to that point. But if you do, the bananas could be considered an "aggravating factor" and used as proof of malicious criminal intent. That argument can be countered, however, by the assertion that you always carried the gun the way you had it set up for purely defensive reasons, and there was nothing special about it on this particular occasion that was evidence of anything other than the fact that you believed it was necessary to shoot.

As always, thanks User!

mtbinva said:

As always, thanks User!

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+1 Thank you for your wisdom, and proving my point that when it really counts understanding the law~~~Speak to a attorney, not someone who thinks they are.

:dude:

mobeewan said:

I think most here would agree that Massad Ayoob is an expert in self defense. He has a column in Combat Handguns Magazine called Self Defense and the Law. In the column he sites multiple cases about the particular topic of self defense that he is writing on in each column. He goes over each case and the outcome of each case. Some that he was personally involved in and others that he wasn't. In one of his columns years ago he advised against the use of reloads. Someone he wrote about had loaded 6 rounds of 38 SPCL ammo for self defense carry. They wound up in a self defense shooting that was justified and shot and killed an assailant with that ammo. The prosecutor went after the guy on the pretense that he had loaded powerful ammo and was looking for an excuse to shoot someone so that he could see how powerful his ammo was. There was an attempt by the defense to get the court to allow the testing of the remaining 4 rounds of ammo that the police removed from the revolver that had not been fired to prove the ammo was similar to and no more deadly or powerful than that of which the local police carried. The judge refused saying that it would result in the destroying of the remaining evidence. The prosecutor was able to convince the jury that the guy had done as accused and he was convicted and sent to prison.

So much for the shooting being justified.

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Well, with User around, the probability of a similar outcome in Virginia approaches zero.