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Thread: Are shortages real? (I hope this is not considered off-topic.)

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    Regular Member vt800c's Avatar
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    Post Are shortages real? (I hope this is not considered off-topic.)

    This was the body of an e-mail I received at my office. I wonder if this can be substantiated? I do know that in the past 6 weeks, the only OTC ammo I could get was 1 box of .32 and one box of .22 WinMag. I didn't go to the gun shows to try, and I am going to the range tonight after work to see how they are doing.

    Status of gun industry

    Several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.

    Smith & Wesson: running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.

    RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.

    FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!

    Armalite: Maxed out.

    DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more products.

    COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carriers.

    LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.

    Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.

    AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.

    MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.

    RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extras for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...


    Does anyone have any evidence or information to the contrary?
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    Buddy works for freedom group (rem, dpms, bushmaster, etc.) I think you're pretty close as far as what that email reported, though the ammo allocation isn't quite like you say. He said ammo plants are running 24hrs, at over 100% production rates and are delivering consumer orders in the order they were received. He also just bought a springfield 1911 direct from springfield and it was about 3 weeks from order to receipt...whether that was an insider connection kind of time frame or not, I do not know.

    It's a self fulfilled prophecy though in my opinion: "oh shoot, they're gonna run out of ammo, so I'm going to buy a bunch." All that does is insure that they run out...

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    If we knew the source of the information, we might be better able to judge it's credibility...

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    I read an article today, that stated the reason for the Ammo shortage was not due to civilans or military, but from local police departments that have increased their orders for ammo.

    I am sure it was a conservative article, when I find it I will post it.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I agree that we don't know the source of the email but I think it's pretty close.
    We've been through these panics before and if history repeats itself, prices will never go to pre scare levels even when the supply levels out.

    There are alternatives, especially to reloaders. Non reloaders can go fish.
    Tula makes acceptable primers so stock up when you can. Scrounge every speck of brass you can.

    Buy every powder you may use.

    For those of us that cast, bullets are no problem.

    The reason I say this is that Obama is going to do something. I don't know what yet, but something will pass Congress and prices will go up and the panic and hoarding will continue.

    In a way this is good. It cuts out a lot of the spray and pray people. They may even decide to learn to shoot one day.

    My personal opinion is that most of the Government stockpiling is to drive prices up and supply down.
    Last edited by peter nap; 02-20-2013 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    My personal opinion is that most of the Government stockpiling is to drive prices up and supply down.
    Come on...take off the tin foil hat. You can't find calibers that the gov't doesn't shoot just the same as you can't find calibers they do.

    Unless you're suggesting that my inability to find 10mm brass is due to the fbi reconsidering their choice to down load it to .40 short and weak.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltH2OHokie View Post
    Come on...take off the tin foil hat. You can't find calibers that the gov't doesn't shoot just the same as you can't find calibers they do.

    Unless you're suggesting that my inability to find 10mm brass is due to the fbi reconsidering their choice to down load it to .40 short and weak.
    Can't see the forest for the trees ...Huh.

    The manufacturers tool for runs of certain calibers, then do the run before moving to the next order.

    I guess you never preordered unusual brass like 460 Rowland or even 10mm. The manufacturer will notify you when they produce a batch. In normal times it may take two months.

    They're running full time on 223/5.56, .40, 9mm and 308. The others will wait until those runs are complete before they retool.

    The .22 shortage is just because they're cheap or used to be, and everyone is buying them as fast as they hit the shelves.

    But then, you don't have to believe it. I have 10mm brass now. You can always call Starline and get in line, or shoot .40's.

    Your inability to get 10mm is twofold.

    1. It is NOT a popular round and the Government is NOT using it, so it goes to the back of the line in production.

    2. You don't know where to look. It's out there but it took me two weeks of looking in every mouse hole to find a few thousand once fired cases that were reasonably priced.

    I'm going out again this afternoon to get another 5000 once fired 40's and 2000 .223's.
    Good trading material.

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    I just don't buy into the hysteria. True, I'd like some more 10mm components or loaded ammo at reasonable prices, but I can't (nor do I feel it necessary to) spend an inordinate amount of time or energy hunting it down. Remington has a schedule of what ammo they're running when...I know when the next round of all the calibers I'm interested in are going to be run, and will purchase accordingly. Then, I'll take pleasure in spending my afternoons turning ammo into once fired cases, and my evenings turning it back into ammo

    My belief is that I'm not fighting the gov't for ammo, I'm fighting folks who are afraid of the gov't and believe internet rumors. I reckon part of that belief is rooted in my not wanting to believe the gov't has the time/will to worry about such things.

    As I said, my best friend works for freedom group. I trend to trust what he tells me vs. internet conjecture when it comes to production schedules and availability of stuff. If he's being fleeced then we really are in trouble because the conspiracy runs deep

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    Quote Originally Posted by vt800c View Post
    This was the body of an e-mail I received at my office. I wonder if this can be substantiated? I do know that in the past 6 weeks, the only OTC ammo I could get was 1 box of .32 and one box of .22 WinMag. I didn't go to the gun shows to try, and I am going to the range tonight after work to see how they are doing.

    Status of gun industry

    Several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.

    Smith & Wesson: running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.

    RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.

    FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!

    Armalite: Maxed out.

    DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more products.

    COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carriers.

    LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.

    Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.

    AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.

    MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.

    RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extras for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...


    Does anyone have any evidence or information to the contrary?
    this started going around during shot show, i saw it posted on facebook one morning and it spread like wild fire thru alot of the gun pages on there by the end of the day. a few dealer and small manufactures(rock island) even posted it on their sites sighting this as the reason they dont have anything in the store.

    i didn't believe it at first since it came out during shot show and that is the BIGGEST meeting of people in the industry not some lil thing in texas(ok nothing is small in texas)

    it also looks like this one is alil different from the first one i saw, there was a line about a 9 month back up on cci 22lr

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltH2OHokie View Post


    My belief is that I'm not fighting the gov't for ammo, I'm fighting folks who are afraid of the gov't and believe internet rumors. I reckon part of that belief is rooted in my not wanting to believe the gov't has the time/will to worry about such things.
    I'm not quoting the internet. I haven't seen that theory but I haven't spent any time looking for it either.

    As far as the production runs, that's from 45 years of handloading unusual calibers.

    As far as fighting the government for ammo, it's like chiggers. I don't get any real benefit from it but it does cause me a lot of aggravation.

    Whatever the cause of the shortages, I'll always be able to shoot and hunt. It's just a matter of what I'm using that week.

    If push comes to shove, I have a few flintlocks... already make my own black powder and flint is there for the picking.

    On a brighter note, there is no shortage of 44 Mag, 454 or 460 cases, large pistol primers are fairly easy to get and powder for them is available....so my favorites are covered....for now anyway.
    Last edited by peter nap; 02-20-2013 at 03:17 PM.

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    Regular Member stickslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm not quoting the internet. I haven't seen that theory but I haven't spent any time looking for it either.
    I read on the Internet that everything on the Internet is true.

    Picked up a couple thousand bullets .224 style, 69 grain (in-stock) from Cabelo's a few minutes ago.

    Light grain varmiter (40 grains) bullets can be had in many places, but I don't shoot anything that light as my barrel (1x7) may rip it to shreds.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickslinger View Post
    I read on the Internet that everything on the Internet is true.

    Picked up a couple thousand bullets .224 style, 69 grain (in-stock) from Cabelo's a few minutes ago.

    Light grain varmiter (40 grains) bullets can be had in many places, but I don't shoot anything that light as my barrel (1x7) may rip it to shreds.
    I just picked up 1500 large rifle primers and 1000 209's.

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    In the past three days I've picked up 80 rnds of 5.56/.223, 100 rnds of .40S&W, 80 rnds of .30-06, and 4 PMAGS. This is just in the Richmond area at the usual stores, no major hunting for this stuff.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stickslinger View Post
    I read on the Internet that everything on the Internet is true.

    Picked up a couple thousand bullets .224 style, 69 grain (in-stock) from Cabelo's a few minutes ago.

    Light grain varmiter (40 grains) bullets can be had in many places, but I don't shoot anything that light as my barrel (1x7) may rip it to shreds.
    I have to stock two bullet weights in .224.

    My rifle has a 1:9 twist and loves 75 grain bullets but my Contender has a 1:12 twist and anything over 55 grains tumble.
    Kind of a a PITA to keep different weight cores and jackets for the same caliber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post

    My personal opinion is that most of the Government stockpiling is to drive prices up and supply down.
    I wonder the same thing myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    I read an article today, that stated the reason for the Ammo shortage was not due to civilans or military, but from local police departments that have increased their orders for ammo.

    I am sure it was a conservative article, when I find it I will post it.
    That's a good thing! That means in ten months to a year from now, I'll be able to buy their overstocks at way below retail prices.
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    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/...llion-bullets/

    As I noted in the comments, nobody is talking about the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars that are being spent on this drive to control the ammunition in the country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I just picked up 1500 large rifle primers and 1000 209's.
    Aha! A "stockpile" of ammo to go with your "arsenal"? Clear indication something bad is going to happen, the newsfaces all say so. Badguys always have a "stockpile" and an "arsenal". Of course the "stockpile" is usually a couple of boxes of bulk Winchester white box from the WalMart and the "assault weapon arsenal" consists of a civilian AR-clone and a Glock or two. Oh, and of course, you've got your "high capacity magazine-clips". Can't forget those "magazine-clips"! Say, it just occurred to me, we need to ban "urban assault vehicles"; we'll figure out what kind of cars the Badguys drive and call those "urban assault vehicles" and pass a law against them. Say, what the hell is a "magazine-clip", anyway?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Aha! A "stockpile" of ammo to go with your "arsenal"? Clear indication something bad is going to happen, the newsfaces all say so. Badguys always have a "stockpile" and an "arsenal". Of course the "stockpile" is usually a couple of boxes of bulk Winchester white box from the WalMart and the "assault weapon arsenal" consists of a civilian AR-clone and a Glock or two. Oh, and of course, you've got your "high capacity magazine-clips". Can't forget those "magazine-clips"! Say, it just occurred to me, we need to ban "urban assault vehicles"; we'll figure out what kind of cars the Badguys drive and call those "urban assault vehicles" and pass a law against them. Say, what the hell is a "magazine-clip", anyway?
    Yep, quite a stockpile.

    Very few non shooters and an alarming number of shooters realize how few primers 1000 are.
    I've cut back some because of the shortages but normal range time for me means 500 rounds a week. I have to shoot that much for load development and just to stay good at it.

    When I was civilized I played golf. I wasn't any more of a natural at that than I am at shooting, so I would go to the driving range at least two times a week and hit a large bucket of balls each time.

    The shotgun primers are a new wrinkle. I do shoot skeet some but recently I fell from grace and set my cap and flintlocks aside for a Savage ML-10. That's a smokeless powder muzzle loader and the load development for it has been trying. If I continue to have primers and powder, I may have a good load by hunting season.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Dealers are having trouble keeping ammo in stock. I can attest to that.

    Primers and .223 are the hardest things to get right now.
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Aha! Say, what the hell is a "magazine-clip", anyway?
    That is the page marker that you use to keep track of what page you are on in a magazine
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Re: Are shortages real? (I hope this is not considered off-topic.)

    Listening to people at the gun show, it's the small pistol/rifle primers that are hard to get. A lot of the behind the counter people were shocked that the large pistol primers weren't selling like the small.

    I couldn't believe what I picked up in the short time I was there.

    .45 or bust

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    Listening to people at the gun show, it's the small pistol/rifle primers that are hard to get. A lot of the behind the counter people were shocked that the large pistol primers weren't selling like the small.

    I couldn't believe what I picked up in the short time I was there.

    .45 or bust
    Small pistol Magnum primers are fairly plentiful. I maxed out on them tonight. Just reduce the load 10% and use them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I have to stock two bullet weights in .224.

    My rifle has a 1:9 twist and loves 75 grain bullets but my Contender has a 1:12 twist and anything over 55 grains tumble.
    Kind of a a PITA to keep different weight cores and jackets for the same caliber.

    I have a barrel with a 1x9 twist until I re-barrelled with the 1x7 Nitride. I like the stability it provides with heavier bullets. I haven't tried 80 grain yet, but then again, I haven't found a range with 600 yards to shoot on either, close by anyway. And those won't fit into the "magazine-clip (as some refer to it as)" anyway. I can shoot 55 to 77 grain with pretty much equal results through those barrels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    That is the page marker that you use to keep track of what page you are on in a magazine
    I'm glad someone finally cleared that up. Now if we could only educate CBS, NBC, Fox & CNN.
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