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Thread: Are bicycles "motor vehicles"

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    Are bicycles "motor vehicles"

    We've all heard of people getting DUIs for being on various objects that aren't cars. I'm want to know if it can be definitely confirmed that a bicycle is not applicable to firearm laws concerning vehicle carry. I am guessing that they are different, since the ORC for DUIs begins:

    "(1) No person shall operate any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley within this state, if..."

    since it just says vehicle, a bicycle obviously is covered. The firearm laws specifically say motor vehicle. I assume that bicycles are not members of that more restricted category, but I can't find a definition of "motor vehicle" anywhere in the law. Am I correct? Specifically I want to know because I can't currently carry a loaded handgun in a "motor vehicle," but also are there any laws that would apply to bicycles that wouldn't apply to just walking?

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    Re: Are bicycles "motor vehicles"

    If it has a motor, it is a motor vehicle.

    Motorcycles, motorized scooters, etc. If it has a motor, it is a motor vehicle.

    Standard bicycles do not apply.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

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    A motorized bicycle (moped) is not a motor vehicle in Ohio. However, many scooters that are considered mopeds in other states aren't such under Ohio's definition. Those scooters that don't fit the definition are motorcycles; motor vehicles. A moped operator is not required to have insurance even though many misinformed BMV workers mistakenly believe so and have some sign the insurance requirement form.

    If we get a few motorized bicycle (moped) enthusiast and builders we can have a discussion as to why just because something has a motor doesn't necessarily make it a motor vehicle in Ohio.



    (Of course, it's been a little while since I did all of the looking and checking on mopeds but I doubt that area has changed much in Ohio law.)
    Last edited by JmE; 02-20-2013 at 04:43 PM.

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    Bicycle is not a motor vehicle. But by definition, would that say that you can't open carry on a motorcycle? The purpose of the no open carry in a motor vehicle is that it is concealed from view from outside the vehicle (common sense would dictate anyway). So if its in plain view on your motorcycle, wouldn't it make sense that its ok? Not saying that the enforced law would reflect that, I'm referring strictly to common sense right now.

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    There are more of these in the ORC and probably in the OAC (can't remember off the top of my head)...

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3937.18

    3937.18 [Effective Until 3/22/2013] Uninsured and underinsured motorist coverage.

    (A) Any policy of insurance delivered or issued for delivery in this state with respect to any motor vehicle registered or principally garaged in this state that insures against loss resulting from liability imposed by law for bodily injury or death suffered by any person arising out of the ownership, maintenance, or use of a motor vehicle, may, but is not required to, include uninsured motorist coverage, underinsured motorist coverage, or both uninsured and underinsured motorist coverages.

    Unless otherwise defined in the policy or any endorsement to the policy, “motor vehicle,” for purposes of the uninsured motorist coverage, underinsured motorist coverage, or both uninsured and underinsured motorist coverages, means a self-propelled vehicle designed for use and principally used on public roads, including an automobile, truck, semi-tractor, motorcycle, and bus. “Motor vehicle” also includes a motor home, provided the motor home is not stationary and is not being used as a temporary or permanent residence or office. “Motor vehicle” does not include a trolley, streetcar, trailer, railroad engine, railroad car, motorized bicycle, golf cart, off-road recreational vehicle, snowmobile, fork lift, aircraft, watercraft, construction equipment, farm tractor or other vehicle designed and principally used for agricultural purposes, mobile home, vehicle traveling on treads or rails, or any similar vehicle.

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    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4501.01

    4501.01 [Effective Until 1/1/2017] Motor vehicles definitions.

    As used in this chapter and Chapters 4503., 4505., 4507., 4509., 4510., 4511., 4513., 4515., and 4517. of the Revised Code, and in the penal laws, except as otherwise provided:

    (A) “Vehicles” means everything on wheels or runners, including motorized bicycles, but does not mean electric personal assistive mobility devices, vehicles that are operated exclusively on rails or tracks or from overhead electric trolley wires, and vehicles that belong to any police department, municipal fire department, or volunteer fire department, or that are used by such a department in the discharge of its functions.

    (B) “Motor vehicle” means any vehicle, including mobile homes and recreational vehicles, that is propelled or drawn by power other than muscular power or power collected from overhead electric trolley wires. “Motor vehicle” does not include utility vehicles as defined in division (VV) of this section, motorized bicycles, road rollers, traction engines, power shovels, power cranes, and other equipment used in construction work and not designed for or employed in general highway transportation, well-drilling machinery, ditch-digging machinery, farm machinery, and trailers that are designed and used exclusively to transport a boat between a place of storage and a marina, or in and around a marina, when drawn or towed on a public road or highway for a distance of no more than ten miles and at a speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less.
    ...
    (L) “Motorized bicycle” means any vehicle that either has two tandem wheels or one wheel in the front and two wheels in the rear, that is capable of being pedaled, and that is equipped with a helper motor of not more than fifty cubic centimeters piston displacement that produces no more than one brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of no greater than twenty miles per hour on a level surface.
    I forgot to mention in my first post that, unless things have changed, mopeds don't need titles either. IDK if Ohio will even legitimately issue one for a moped. Mopeds are bought and sold in Ohio with bill of sale all of the time. Some DMV workers don't seem to always grasp that.

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    They are VEHICLES however...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sledge View Post
    Bicycle is not a motor vehicle. But by definition, would that say that you can't open carry on a motorcycle? The purpose of the no open carry in a motor vehicle is that it is concealed from view from outside the vehicle (common sense would dictate anyway). So if its in plain view on your motorcycle, wouldn't it make sense that its ok? Not saying that the enforced law would reflect that, I'm referring strictly to common sense right now.
    I agree with you but I'm not an attorney, judge, or peace officer. As you pointed out, sometimes common sense and enforced law don't always meet in Ohio.

    As long as the laws are written to prohibit carry in a motor vehicle then it makes sense that someone not armed on or in something that's not only not defined as a motor vehicle in Ohio and even expressly excluded from the definition. My Amish and Mennonite friends would have problems if it were the case.


    Edited: I corrected myself further down the thread because I missed "motorcycle" and thought it was about motorized bicycles or bicycles.
    Last edited by JmE; 02-20-2013 at 05:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    They are VEHICLES however...
    Cite?

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    4501.01 [Effective Until 1/1/2017] Motor vehicles definitions.
    As used in this chapter and Chapters 4503., 4505., 4507., 4509., 4510., 4511., 4513., 4515., and 4517. of the Revised Code, and in the penal laws, except as otherwise provided:
    (A) “Vehicles” means everything on wheels or runners, including motorized bicycles, but does not mean electric personal assistive mobility devices, vehicles that are operated exclusively on rails or tracks or from overhead electric trolley wires, and vehicles that belong to any police department, municipal fire department, or volunteer fire department, or that are used by such a department in the discharge of its functions.
    (B) “Motor vehicle” means any vehicle, including mobile homes and recreational vehicles, that is propelled or drawn by power other than muscular power or power collected from overhead electric trolley wires. “Motor vehicle” does not include utility vehicles as defined in division (VV) of this section, motorized bicycles, road rollers, traction engines, power shovels, power cranes, and other equipment used in construction work and not designed for or employed in general highway transportation, well-drilling machinery, ditch-digging machinery, farm machinery, and trailers that are designed and used exclusively to transport a boat between a place of storage and a marina, or in and around a marina, when drawn or towed on a public road or highway for a distance of no more than ten miles and at a speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less.
    (K) “Bicycle” means every device, other than a tricycle that is designed solely for use as a play vehicle by a child, that is propelled solely by human power upon which any person may ride, and that has two tandem wheels, or one wheel in front and two wheels in the rear, or two wheels in the front and one wheel in the rear, any of which is more than fourteen inches in diameter.
    There is nothing else to look at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sledge View Post
    But by definition, would that say that you can't open carry on a motorcycle?
    I missed that part. A motorcycle is a motor vehicle so it isn't open carrying on a motorcycle currently in Ohio. While riding motorcycles in Ohio we used to have to do the "Buckeye Tuck", exposing our sidearms to be in compliance with the law, before the law changed. In reality it wasn't always done.

    Basically, a motorcycle is defined motor vehicle so in order to carry (without going through the other firearm transport requirements) one must have a CHL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    There is nothing else to look at.
    Yep, that's why I included that part of the section. Thanks for pointing it out since I forgot to highlight it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Cite?
    You missed it.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4501.01

    4501.01 [Effective Until 1/1/2017] Motor vehicles definitions.

    As used in this chapter and Chapters 4503., 4505., 4507., 4509., 4510., 4511., 4513., 4515., and 4517. of the Revised Code, and in the penal laws, except as otherwise provided:

    (A) “Vehicles” means everything on wheels or runners, including motorized bicycles, but does not mean electric personal assistive mobility devices, vehicles that are operated exclusively on rails or tracks or from overhead electric trolley wires, and vehicles that belong to any police department, municipal fire department, or volunteer fire department, or that are used by such a department in the discharge of its functions.

    (B) “Motor vehicle” means any vehicle, including mobile homes and recreational vehicles, that is propelled or drawn by power other than muscular power or power collected from overhead electric trolley wires. “Motor vehicle” does not include utility vehicles as defined in division (VV) of this section, motorized bicycles, road rollers, traction engines, power shovels, power cranes, and other equipment used in construction work and not designed for or employed in general highway transportation, well-drilling machinery, ditch-digging machinery, farm machinery, and trailers that are designed and used exclusively to transport a boat between a place of storage and a marina, or in and around a marina, when drawn or towed on a public road or highway for a distance of no more than ten miles and at a speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less.
    ...
    (L) “Motorized bicycle” means any vehicle that either has two tandem wheels or one wheel in the front and two wheels in the rear, that is capable of being pedaled, and that is equipped with a helper motor of not more than fifty cubic centimeters piston displacement that produces no more than one brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of no greater than twenty miles per hour on a level surface.
    Last edited by JmE; 02-20-2013 at 05:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    There is nothing else to look at.
    Thanks for the cite. You are helpful except to the extent that you pulled mr-i-know-the-law-but-never-ever-cite-it's chestnuts out of the fire with incredible timing. Seconds after I asked the interloper for a cite, you provided it.

    In one sense, I want to be thankful. In another I feel frustrated. I guess "thankful" wins. So thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JmE View Post
    You missed it.
    I was asking the interloper for a cite.

    God knows where he is from, but certainly not Ohio. Yet he shows up all over OCDO, in almost every State forum, makes pronouncements about the law, and virtually never provides citations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I was asking the interloper for a cite.

    God knows where he is from, but certainly not Ohio. Yet he shows up all over OCDO, in almost every State forum, makes pronouncements about the law, and virtually never provides citations.
    I was under the impression that he was at some of the events. Apparently I was mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Thanks for the cite. You are helpful except to the extent that you pulled mr-i-know-the-law-but-never-ever-cite-it's chestnuts out of the fire with incredible timing. Seconds after I asked the interloper for a cite, you provided it.

    In one sense, I want to be thankful. In another I feel frustrated. I guess "thankful" wins. So thanks.
    I feel your pain.

    But, what really gulls me is when judges make "out of this world proclamations" without citing one case to support their bogus legal theory.

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    Actually, Eye95, COL repeated my cite so he didn't provide one per se.

    I'm always impressed by COL so when I get the jump on him, even by a fraction of a second, my day is done.

    If you haven't met him in person yet, it's a worthwhile venture. Seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I feel your pain.

    But, what really gulls me is when judges make "out of this world proclamations" without citing one case to support their bogus legal theory.
    It is annoying when trolls post pronouncements on the law without backing them up. When judges make them up out of whole cloth, it ought to be criminal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Cite?
    My eyes are fine thanks. GAL

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    My eyes are fine thanks. GAL
    What a trollish reply!

    Not a surprise.

    Moving on.

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    Just to be clear... I do not need to have my CHL on me when I OC on my bicycle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post

    Moving on.
    I knew you'd say that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohio Patriot View Post
    Just to be clear... I do not need to have my CHL on me when I OC on my bicycle?
    IANAL! However, as long as it is in the open and you aren't in/on a motor vehicle and not in a prohibited place then... yep. The Amish and Mennonite have guns, NOT in the open, in their buggies on occasion and I've never seen them harassed. BUT IDK how a particular officer might percieve you open carrying on a bicycle. They've messed with bicycle and moped riders about non-firearm things because officers figured it must be a motor vehicle.


    ETA: I need to read the concealed carry laws and check if they say VEHICLE or MOTOR VEHICLE. If it is the latter then OC should be OK in the open on a bicycle. If it is the former then it would be a NO-go.

    ETA: I'm not finding what I'm looking for. Has the concept that carrying in a motor vehicle or a vehicle as concealed carry been a matter of case law or is there a specific prohibition somewhere. I can't remember and don't want to chase my tail. Anyone?

    ETA: R.C. 2923.16, Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle, states motor vehicle. If that is where it all comes from then a bicycle is NOT a motor vehicle so as long as it is in the open then OC should be good. Again, IANAL.

    (LOL, it even states in parts, "in or ON a motor vehicle", like I wrote. )

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16

    2923.16 [Effective Until 3/27/2013] Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

    (A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.

    (B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.
    (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:
    ...
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.16

    2923.16 [Effective 3/27/2013] Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle

    (A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.

    (B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.
    (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:
    ...
    ETA: Couple that with what I posted earlier in the thread. A motor vehicle does not include bicycles. Bicycles are vehicles.

    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4501.01

    4501.01 [Effective Until 1/1/2017] Motor vehicles definitions.

    As used in this chapter and Chapters 4503., 4505., 4507., 4509., 4510., 4511., 4513., 4515., and 4517. of the Revised Code, and in the penal laws, except as otherwise provided:

    (A) “Vehicles” means everything on wheels or runners, including motorized bicycles, but does not mean electric personal assistive mobility devices, vehicles that are operated exclusively on rails or tracks or from overhead electric trolley wires, and vehicles that belong to any police department, municipal fire department, or volunteer fire department, or that are used by such a department in the discharge of its functions.

    (B) “Motor vehicle” means any vehicle, including mobile homes and recreational vehicles, that is propelled or drawn by power other than muscular power or power collected from overhead electric trolley wires. “Motor vehicle” does not include utility vehicles as defined in division (VV) of this section, motorized bicycles, road rollers, traction engines, power shovels, power cranes, and other equipment used in construction work and not designed for or employed in general highway transportation, well-drilling machinery, ditch-digging machinery, farm machinery, and trailers that are designed and used exclusively to transport a boat between a place of storage and a marina, or in and around a marina, when drawn or towed on a public road or highway for a distance of no more than ten miles and at a speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less.
    Last edited by JmE; 02-25-2013 at 10:13 PM. Reason: ETAs

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    As a side note; notice how the government exempts itself in R.C. 4501.01 with "'Vehicles' means everything on wheels... but does not mean... vehicles that belong to any police department, municipal fire department, or volunteer fire department, or that are used by such a department in the discharge of its functions." Grrrrrr!

    I guess I don't need a CHL if I'm riding in a cop car or fire vehicle...

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