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Utah state trooper accused of making bogus DUI arrests

sudden valley gunner

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It's not the only motivation but it is a major one. Certain jobs attract certain people and the more you protect and not hold liable people in that profession the worse type of people it will attract.

Certain jobs attract certain personalities. For example all engineers I know are A-type personalities many outright OCD, of course this is normally a good thing when designing structures that could potentially be dangerous.
 

Motofixxer

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Yes a violent attack is possible. They will do it if they have their mind made up, especially if there is some kind of warrant or something like that guy had. I heard something that sounded like he was possibly wanted or there was an issue of some sort. But in normal traffic cases especially, many times if the officer hauls someone out of a car like any of those. It is excessive force etc. Obviously it's a generalization and there are other factors that come in to play. But like in that Steven Anderson case he was found Not Guilty.
 

Citizen

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I won't let others equate public jobs to private. It just doesn't equate. Bankers, Carpenters and Doctors etc.......pay for their mistakes almost immediately. They don't get the protection of the almighty state.

I agree about doctors and carpenters. But, I think ya forgot about bankers.

Bankers get all kinds of protection. Court decisions giving them the authority to suspend payments to depositors ("bank-holidays") rather than be forced into bankruptcy and liquidate, including the personal assets of the officers, to pay off depositors; special treatment in the form of the legal definition about what a deposit is; the FDIC; special charter creating the Federal Reserve. The whole banking industry in this country is designed to privatize the profits and socialize the risks. The Federal Reserve system was created precisely because bankers kept making mistakes with other people's money. The bankers--Federal Reserve--were not only protected, but rewarded with the monopoly to create money (Federal Reserve Notes) and the power to regulate the value of money (set interest rates) rather than let the market do it. I'll just mention in passing the massive bailouts in 2009, and QE1, QE2, and the most recent QEinfinity.

:p:D
 
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Gil223

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I agree about doctors and carpenters. But, I think ya forgot about bankers.

Bankers get all kinds of protection. Court decisions giving them the authority to suspend payments to depositors ("bank-holidays") rather than be forced into bankruptcy and liquidate, including the personal assets of the officers, to pay off depositors; special treatment in the form of the legal definition about what a deposit is; the FDIC; special charter creating the Federal Reserve. The whole banking industry in this country is designed to privatize the profits and socialize the risks. The Federal Reserve system was created precisely because bankers kept making mistakes with other people's money. The bankers--Federal Reserve--were not only protected, but rewarded with the monopoly to create money (Federal Reserve Notes) and the power to regulate the value of money (set interest rates) rather than let the market do it. I'll just mention in passing the massive bailouts in 2009, and QE1, QE2, and the most recent QEinfinity.

:p:D

You've heard about the "Blue Wall" in LE? Well, there's a "White Wall" in the medical field - doctors protect their own. Got a malpractice suit you want to bring against a doctor or hospital? Good luck finding a "medical expert" willing to support your case. :( Pax...
 

eye95

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And more specifically, they only [emphasis mine] come from those within that well who WANT to police their fellowmen.

...Folks shouldn't imply that the only [emphasis added] motivation to become a LEO is to have authority over others...

Then you aren't talking about anyone in this thread that I can see.

Let's allow the readers to decide about whom I was talking.

Moving on.
 

Citizen

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You've heard about the "Blue Wall" in LE? Well, there's a "White Wall" in the medical field - doctors protect their own. Got a malpractice suit you want to bring against a doctor or hospital? Good luck finding a "medical expert" willing to support your case. :( Pax...

Ahhhhh. I should have realized. It makes sense.
 

MAC702

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Let's allow the readers to decide about whom I was talking.

Moving on.

Moving on after noticing the same word used in two different ways. Okay. Moving on, then. Wow, you are usually much better than this. I'm more than a little disappointed.

"B only comes from A" does not mean "only A can come from B" nor "A is the only reason for B", no matter how times the word "only" is used.
 
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sudden valley gunner

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You've heard about the "Blue Wall" in LE? Well, there's a "White Wall" in the medical field - doctors protect their own. Got a malpractice suit you want to bring against a doctor or hospital? Good luck finding a "medical expert" willing to support your case. :( Pax...

Protectionism exists in many trades, but most don't enjoy the protection and immunity by the state.
 

Yard Sale

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Detainment without reasonable suspicion is false imprisonment. Warrantless arrest and transport without probable cause is kidnapping. Why wasn't a warrant issued for her arrest and why isn't she being prosecuted for her crimes?
 

PFC HALE

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Detainment without reasonable suspicion is false imprisonment. Warrantless arrest and transport without probable cause is kidnapping. Why wasn't a warrant issued for her arrest and why isn't she being prosecuted for her crimes?

shes a cop and is protected...
 

davidmcbeth

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You're right, Gil. Folks shouldn't imply that the only motivation to become a LEO is to have authority over others. For some (probably not most) it is. For some (probably a large majority) it is not.

Seeing bigotry here is always disappointing.

I agree .. its an easy job with good benefits and excellent pay ... that's its main attraction ..
 

REALteach4u

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Only one trooper? really?

I agree. These types of cases typically don't run alone.

What bothers me is they pass a polygraph to get the job, a polygraph isn't admissable in court yet it's still used for employment entrance, AND they're protected by the Employee Polygraph Protection Act once they're in. No way to refute their "perceived" good character until someone catches them and those with the authority to do something about it actually stand up for what is right.
 

EMNofSeattle

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I agree .. its an easy job with good benefits and excellent pay ... that's its main attraction ..

It can have good pay, look at san antonio's recruitment page, it doesn't even require college, and you can start out of the academy making 49,000 dollars a year, know a second language? 49,500 know a second language and have a 4 year degree? 51,000 not a crappy low paying gig anymore really.
 

eye95

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OK. She is not a cop now. She was a cop when she was making arrests. Rightly or wrongly, she had greater protections from prosecution than non-cops have. Then.
 

EMNofSeattle

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OK. She is not a cop now. She was a cop when she was making arrests. Rightly or wrongly, she had greater protections from prosecution than non-cops have. Then.

Very wrongly in this case.

Now I believe it's nessecary that cops be given more leeway, anyone who thinks otherwise is not living in reality land, the reality is that police work an unpredictable job and constitutional violations are rarely clear cut, courts rule conflicting things all the time, you can have a judge who will rule everything a cop does constitutional on one extreme, and another who recieves birthday cards from the ACLU on the other extreme.
Cops, in order to properly do the job that the majority of the public expects them to do, need reasonable leeway for actions made to protect the public in good faith.

HOWEVER

This officer was obviously not acting in good faith, she regularily arrested people despite them passing sobriety tests, she falsified reports, and she had validated excessive force complaints against her. you can see her on video tazing someone out of a car when he posed no violent danger to her. Other troopers repeatedly brought this to the attention of command where it was swept under the rug.

This officer does not deserve those greater protections, she clearly acted in violation of established law, and she really can't even argue acting in good faith.... keep in mind Detective Mark Fuhrman went down for lying about using the word "******" in an irrelevant question at a trial, surely Trooper Steed's actions hurt far more people then Det Furhman, she needs to be charged, and if pled out, pled out to a felony so she can't shuffle to some other department or own a gun.

in my humble opinion that is.
 

PFC HALE

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Wrong answer. She is not a cop any more. Would you like to try again?

wrong answer... lol

apologies i didnt realize we were talking about her arrest after the fact she was fired or employment terminated.

get yer ruler out and smack my knuckles! :)
 

Citizen

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Very wrongly in this case.

Now I believe it's nessecary that cops be given more leeway, anyone who thinks otherwise is not living in reality land, the reality is that police work an unpredictable job and constitutional violations are rarely clear cut, courts rule conflicting things all the time, you can have a judge who will rule everything a cop does constitutional on one extreme, and another who recieves birthday cards from the ACLU on the other extreme.
Cops, in order to properly do the job that the majority of the public expects them to do, need reasonable leeway for actions made to protect the public in good faith.

HOWEVER

This officer was obviously not acting in good faith, she regularily arrested people despite them passing sobriety tests, she falsified reports, and she had validated excessive force complaints against her. you can see her on video tazing someone out of a car when he posed no violent danger to her. Other troopers repeatedly brought this to the attention of command where it was swept under the rug.

This officer does not deserve those greater protections, she clearly acted in violation of established law, and she really can't even argue acting in good faith.... keep in mind Detective Mark Fuhrman went down for lying about using the word "******" in an irrelevant question at a trial, surely Trooper Steed's actions hurt far more people then Det Furhman, she needs to be charged, and if pled out, pled out to a felony so she can't shuffle to some other department or own a gun.

in my humble opinion that is.

Oh, they're pretty clear cut. Its only fuzzy if one ignores a few sentences from Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford. "No right is held more sacred or more carefully guarded by the common law than the right of all individuals to the possession and control of their own persons. Free from all restraint and interference unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law."

A cop only has to know one thing: does he have clear and unquestionable authority of law to act? If he has any doubt, any uncertainty, then he cannot possibly know whether he is acting within the law or violating someone's rights. He must know to a complete moral certainty that he has clear and unquestionable authority of law to take whatever action he is contemplating. This knocks out vast swaths of cute police tactics to stretch the case law.

Also, view that Botsford quote against the current standard for a civil rights violation: was the right well established and would/should a reasonable cop know about it. That was an erosion. If the right wasn't clearly established or the cop couldn't reasonably know, then he gets off on qualified immunity. Viewed in the light of Botsford however, the cop doesn't have to know whether this-or-that little complexity or piece of a right exists. All he has to know is whether he has clear and unquestionable authority of law to act. If he cannot positively and correctly identify the exact piece of law that authorizes him to act, and his interpretation of it must be clear and unquestionable too, then he has not authority to act against another person.

Terry v Ohio is a classic example of the courts creating the fuzziness. In the first half of the opinion, the Terry court quotes that line from Botsford. But, in the holding, approved the cop seizing Terry, saying the cop's actions were based on reasonable suspicion. This was the beginning of Terry Stops and RAS. Wait a second. If that was the beginning of Terry Stops and RAS, how did the cop have clear and unquestionable authority of law to make that seizure? The case law didn't exist yet at the time of the seizure. From another angle, if the cop had clear and unquestionable authority of law to seize Terry and search him for the gun, then why did that case make it all the way to the US Supreme court to be sorted out on that exact point? It was precisely because the law was not clear and unquestionable that it was appealed to the Supreme Court.

Another piece of evidence that the cop didn't have clear and unquestionable authority to seize Terry is in the dissent of Terry. The dissenting justice pointed out that the majority were handing street cops more authority than a magistrate. Magistrate's must have probable cause before they can issue warrants to seize people; street cops get to seize people on mere RAS. The fact the judge brought up this point in the context of the court giving cops authority proves the cop did not already have the authority at the time he seized Terry.

The clear and unquestionable authority of law standard also fits nicely with our constitutional government: government only has the authority its given. Not whatever authority the street cop thinks he can "imply" by stretching or creative interpretation.

So, if a constitutional rights violation is not clear cut, then it necessarily is a violation--because any restraint or interference that is not done on clear and unquestionable authority of law violates one of the most fundamental rights of all. Its the government and courts that want people to accept/believe that there is any fogginess to the issue. The only fog is that which the government creates.
 
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