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Thread: If you cannot own a person and corporation is a person then.....

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    If you cannot own a person and corporation is a person then.....

    If you cannot own a person and corporation is a person then, how can one person (corporation) own another person (corporation)?

    Some bad court rulings have granted corporations person-hood. Since one person cannot own a person and a group of people cannot own a person then how can anyone own a corporation with twisted rulings like that?

    With rulings like that I could argue that I can own other people.

    Any discussion on this would be enlightening.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    In America we have freedom to donate money.

    Get over it.
    ┐┐┐How is this relevant???
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Corporations are not people. They have some of the same rights as people, in that they act on behalf of the people who own them, run them, or belong to them. When acting on such a behalf, they have the rights of those people, such as the right to speech and association. However, they do not have all the rights of people. For example, they can be dissolved. That would be the equivalent of losing their right to existence or, in human terms, life.

    In that latter case, they are not acting on behalf of a person or people, and therefore are not exercising the rights of that person or people.

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    person v natural person .. they are different ... a corporation can do things you cannot do and you can do things a corporation cannot do ...

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    Regular Member Keylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Corporations are not people. They have some of the same rights as people, in that they act on behalf of the people who own them, run them, or belong to them. When acting on such a behalf, they have the rights of those people, such as the right to speech and association. However, they do not have all the rights of people. For example, they can be dissolved. That would be the equivalent of losing their right to existence or, in human terms, life.

    In that latter case, they are not acting on behalf of a person or people, and therefore are not exercising the rights of that person or people.
    Corporations come to "life" via government grant. They both lack sentience. Thus one non-life form grants life to another non-life form. Yet people, who are sentient beings, are treated as slaves and serfs by the state.

    The government isn't capable of granting rights. It can only grant privileleges. Rights come from our humanity. Corporations lack humanity. By saying that corporations have rights that government grants, we begin down the road that says our rights don't come from the Creator, but government. Slippery slope. And all of this intentional as a means of confusing the stupid amongst us from where rights come.
    Last edited by Keylock; 02-24-2013 at 08:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keylock View Post
    Corporations come to "life" via government grant. They both lack sentience. Thus one non-life form grants life to another non-life form. Yet people, who are sentient beings, are treated as slaves and serfs by the state.

    The government isn't capable of granting rights. It can only grant privileleges. Rights come from our humanity. Corporations lack humanity. By saying that corporations have rights that government grants, we begin down the road that says our rights don't come from the Creator, but government. Slippery slope. And all of this intentional.
    You are trying to use life both metaphorically and literally, using the metaphoric life to make the point and then literal life to mock it. Non sequitur.

    Corporations exist. They don't live. Corporate existence is the analog to a person's life.

    Again, the rights that a corporation exercises do not come from government. They are the same rights that any organization, incorporated through government or not, can exercise on behalf of the people it represents. The rights belong to the people, but are being exercised by the entity created by the people and sometimes formally recognized by government, sometimes not.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    But many of the "privileges" and protections afforded corporations are granted by government. This is morally wrong.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    But many of the "privileges" and protections afforded corporations are granted by government. This is morally wrong.
    That is an overbroad statement. Privileges and protections are granted to many different entities: corporations, people, and other entities. So? Unless you have a specific privilege or protection offered to a specific entity that you think is wrong, meh.

    You will find that on most privileges and protections, I would agree with you that they are wrong, simply because I prefer minimal government. I just won't make a blanket statement implying that all are wrong, not even all for corporations.

    On ninja edit: Notice that, in the quote, the word many is applied to the granting of privileges, not to the ones that are morally wrong. The statement is clearly implying that the privileges and protections afforded are morally wrong without exception. So any future post saying that SVG is only saying that many are wrong is a bunch of deceptive hooey.

    I don't do many ninja edits, but some situations just cry out for them.
    Last edited by eye95; 02-25-2013 at 10:03 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I just won't make a blanket statement implying that all are wrong, not even all for corporations.
    Neither did SVG. He said "many."

    It just so happens that a number of the primary defining characteristics of the modern corporation are granted by government and represent an abrogation of others' rights.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    But many of the "privileges" and protections afforded corporations are granted by government. This is morally wrong.
    Corporations are supposed to be extremely limited.

    Example:

    A group of people, you, and I wanted to build a bridge across a river/lake/straight/valley we could start a corporation that had the sole purpose of building the bridge. It be there to help protect us if there was a person who died while building the bridge or if the bridge does not get maintained later and falls apart. After the bridge was built the corporation would dissolve.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    It be there to help protect us if there was a person who died while building the bridge or if the bridge does not get maintained later and falls apart.
    You don't deserve this. It occurs only in opposition to right.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Neither did SVG. He said "many."

    It just so happens that a number of the primary defining characteristics of the modern corporation are granted by government and represent an abrogation of others' rights.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    That is an overbroad statement. Privileges and protections are granted to many different entities: corporations, people, and other entities. So? Unless you have a specific privilege or protection offered to a specific entity that you think is wrong, meh.

    You will find that on most privileges and protections, I would agree with you that they are wrong, simply because I prefer minimal government. I just won't make a blanket statement implying that all are wrong, not even all for corporations.

    On ninja edit: Notice that, in the quote, the word many is applied to the granting of privileges, not to the ones that are morally wrong. The statement is clearly implying that the privileges and protections afforded are morally wrong without exception. So any future post saying that SVG is only saying that many are wrong is a bunch of deceptive hooey.
    Just keep in mind Eye the flow of the conversation....

    Again, the rights that a corporation exercises do not come from government. They are the same rights that any organization, incorporated through government or not, can exercise on behalf of the people it represents. The rights belong to the people, but are being exercised by the entity created by the people and sometimes formally recognized by government, sometimes not.



    But many of the "privileges" and protections afforded corporations are granted by government. This is morally wrong.

    I am not arguing that the rights belong to the people of the corporation only that when you grant one group of people e.g. corporations over other groups of people or individuals it is morally wrong. And that is why I said many and then the subject privileges and protections afforded corporations, if you and I as private individuals acting without a government license have the same privileges and protections I would have no moral problems with it.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 02-26-2013 at 09:23 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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