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Thread: Some Initiative ideas

  1. #1
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Some Initiative ideas

    I was thinking about some ideas for using initiatives to loosen gun laws in Washington. these are some ideas here, although I'm not ready to take on some of these as a project, I was hoping maybe one of these could be used by an advocacy group with the resources to push them...


    State Visitor Protection Act

    Be it enacted by the people of the State of Washington

    The State of Washington shall grant full faith and credit to persons of age 21 or older duly licensed to own, carry, or possess a pistol or revolver of any state or territory of the United States

    "Duly licensed" is defined as

    A license issued by a state, territory, county, county equivelant, or municipality in the United States to carry a concealed firearm in public

    A Firearm Owners Identification or handgun registration receipt issued by the states of Illinois, New jersey, California, New York, Maryland, District of Columbia, and Hawaii.


    Or I'd make it an affirmative defense if that will increase chances of passage. I'm not a lawyer so if these don't sound legalese then maybe a real lawyer could correct it

    second idea

    Be it enacted by the people of the state of Washington

    No public college, university or trade school shall adopt any rule, contract, or regulation prohibiting enrolled students in possession of a concealed pistol license or recognized out of state license from lawfully carrying on campus.

    Third idea

    The restrictions on possession of firearms by foreign nationals shall not apply to

    A citizen of Canada who is in possession of police credentials or a license to own firearms defined as restricted or prohibited by the criminal code of canada. licenses to own prohibited or restricted firearms shall be given full faith and credit and recognized as the equievelant of a concealed pistol license.

    just some ideas to make the state of Washington a freer and a safer state then it already is
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Initiative idea #1
    I do like this idea but I think it ignores the rights of adults under 21. I think we should change the wording to 18 not 21 and of course include language to change our cpl to 18. (I would of course prefer to remove the cpl completely but that wont happen at this time.)

    Initiative idea #2
    Why limit this to those who have a government permission slip? Also why restrict visitors from carrying?
    No public college, university or trade school shall adopt any rule, contract, or regulation prohibiting any individual from lawfully carrying on campus. (Personally I do not understand why our preemption statute does not already cover this)

    Initiative idea #3 I would not restrict this to only Canada or to only people with government permission slips. Anyone who is not otherwise a "prohibited person" should be allowed to carry, regardless of the country from which they are visiting or moving.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  3. #3
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    Initiative idea #1
    I do like this idea but I think it ignores the rights of adults under 21. I think we should change the wording to 18 not 21 and of course include language to change our cpl to 18. (I would of course prefer to remove the cpl completely but that wont happen at this time.)

    Initiative idea #2
    Why limit this to those who have a government permission slip? Also why restrict visitors from carrying?
    No public college, university or trade school shall adopt any rule, contract, or regulation prohibiting any individual from lawfully carrying on campus. (Personally I do not understand why our preemption statute does not already cover this)

    Initiative idea #3 I would not restrict this to only Canada or to only people with government permission slips. Anyone who is not otherwise a "prohibited person" should be allowed to carry, regardless of the country from which they are visiting or moving.
    OR, another would be to change RCW 9.41.073 to say WA will recognize "any firearms license granted by any legitimate government" would probably have a better chance, but I agree with the 18 year old concept, I think we should issue to and allow anyone to carry that not is prohibited by federal law.

  4. #4
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I would like age 18 to be the limit. the problem is the WA ceasefire will get big corporate donations to put out commercials saying that some depressed high school senior will be able to declare open season on the little children.... we all know that's ridicolous, but the majority of voters would fall for it.

    I agree with constitutional carry, but it's not likely to be enacted in this state soon. let's not take too much at a time, you got to understand, anti gunners will be happy with ANY incremental restriction on gun rights, but pro-gun folk will gripe about "compromise, and the constitution" and yada yada and sometimes are not willing to accept incremental roll backs, it's time to start taking from the anti-gun playbook.

    you know why Samuel Gompers was so effective in raising the American Federation of Labor? because he was willing to accept incremental change, when asked by a reporter what exactly the AFL wanted, Gompers would always answer "just a little more" see we need to adopt the philosophy with gun rights, I agree 100% with you guys, but I'm trying to think... realistically, what can we accomplish in one election season?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  5. #5
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by END_THE_FED View Post
    Initiative idea #1
    I do like this idea but I think it ignores the rights of adults under 21. I think we should change the wording to 18 not 21 and of course include language to change our cpl to 18. (I would of course prefer to remove the cpl completely but that wont happen at this time.)
    removing restrictions on 18-21 year olds would be difficult, I'd be willing to first try an idaho style law, that CPLs are may issue for 18 to 20 and shall issue above that, then after a few years when the dust as settled we can put it on as shall issue.

    Initiative idea #2
    Why limit this to those who have a government permission slip? Also why restrict visitors from carrying?
    No public college, university or trade school shall adopt any rule, contract, or regulation prohibiting any individual from lawfully carrying on campus. (Personally I do not understand why our preemption statute does not already cover this)
    preemption does cover this, but the problem is not criminal penalty, the problem is the university makes contract with students and will expell you and force you to pay fines for your transcript. you can't go to jail, but losing all your tuition money is a bad prospect.
    again, incremental, people like the word license increases prospect of passage. since non-students and non-employees are not bound by university rules they can already carry on the campus grounds if open to the public. at least to the best of my knowledge

    Initiative idea #3 I would not restrict this to only Canada or to only people with government permission slips. Anyone who is not otherwise a "prohibited person" should be allowed to carry, regardless of the country from which they are visiting or moving.
    Maybe Europe too, it depends. In countries that have an orderly society and rule of law, I wouldn't mind a licensed gun owner from UK or France or Norway carrying a gun in the US, they've been vetted and put up with a lot more crap to own a gun then we are to carry one. Canada is a close cousin in terms of culture and law, so I have no problem there. other world regions it would strongly depend. with foreign nationals we have the right to set conditions of entry, and the amount of privelages you're granted while living, vacationing in the United States should be factored as to the legal culture and society you come from. IMO
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    "...shall not be infringed..."

    Let's make that the law as it was originally intended. Heck, even our Washington State Constitution uses the same language. Might as well go for the gold, huh?

    No CPL, no background checks, no FFL. Establish a State that actually is a State again, instead of a servant to the national government.

    Sure, it might get rowdy for a while, but once the scum has been cleansed from the ol' genetic pond, life will be far more precious and people will be much more respectful. Might even put Olympia on the straight and narrow...
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  7. #7
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    "...shall not be infringed..."

    Let's make that the law as it was originally intended. Heck, even our Washington State Constitution uses the same language. Might as well go for the gold, huh?

    No CPL, no background checks, no FFL. Establish a State that actually is a State again, instead of a servant to the national government.

    Sure, it might get rowdy for a while, but once the scum has been cleansed from the ol' genetic pond, life will be far more precious and people will be much more respectful. Might even put Olympia on the straight and narrow...
    "cleansing the genetic pond"? Sounds to me like a vieled threat of illegal activity.

    That's against the forum rules.

    "going for the gold" is not possible in the current political climate, if you want to do away with all gun restrictions, you have to work incrementally.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  8. #8
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    "cleansing the genetic pond"? Sounds to me like a vieled threat of illegal activity.

    That's against the forum rules.

    "going for the gold" is not possible in the current political climate, if you want to do away with all gun restrictions, you have to work incrementally.
    No threat. Just a fact that if our illegal and unconstitutional gun laws were removed, there would be a sorting out period where people too foolish to restrain their impulses would be kicked out of the pond. And, please, don't quote rules to me Mr. Statist.

    We got here "incrementally", and I don't really desire to spend the rest of my life waiting for the delusional dream of this fictitious incremental change back to a place where these statist thugs respect my God-given Rights. As if they ever will, short of bloodshed.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  9. #9
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    No threat. Just a fact that if our illegal and unconstitutional gun laws were removed, there would be a sorting out period where people too foolish to restrain their impulses would be kicked out of the pond. And, please, don't quote rules to me Mr. Statist.

    We got here "incrementally", and I don't really desire to spend the rest of my life waiting for the delusional dream of this fictitious incremental change back to a place where these statist thugs respect my God-given Rights. As if they ever will, short of bloodshed.
    Then start your own thread and stop thread-jacking mine.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  10. #10
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Then start your own thread and stop thread-jacking mine.
    You're right. Sorry. Just bringing a different view to the subject. One obviously not acceptable. I apologize. Please feel free to report me to Janet Napolitano and I will ready myself for internment...

    Jeesh.

    Maybe you could discuss the intent of my reply instead of simply dismissing it out of hand? Nah. Your thread, your house. Enjoy.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    One that recognizes the burden of proof of constitutionality is for the government to prove not defending citizens.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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