GOP bans guns at Republican State Convention

TheQ · Feb 23, 2013

The Michigan Republicans party Sgt. at arms has told people who were lawfully openly carrying holstered handguns to leave the party's state convention today or leave their guns in the car.

In fact, we've learned that they are prohibiting concealed carry at the state convention as well.

Video of the entire incident:

http://qik.com/video/57404719

Here's how it went down: Tony DeMott (The State Coordinator for Michigan Campaign for Liberty) left the convention hall to have a smoke outside. On the way out he ran into a security guard in the main hallway. The security guard told him he would have to disarm to come back in. Tony said, "wait one moment" and called me -- I was still inside.

I came out to the situation, camera rolling. What happens next is above.

The State GOP has declared itself a PFZ.

Ezerharden · Feb 23, 2013

TheQ said:
The Michigan Republicans party Sgt. at arms has told people who were lawfully openly carrying holstered handguns to leave the party's state convention today or leave their guns in the car.

In fact, we've learned that they are prohibiting concealed carry at the state convention as well.

The State GOP has declared itself a PFZ.

I assume this is held on private property. Imagine the "pro gun" GOP with that kind of attitude.

skidmark · Feb 23, 2013

Te Virginia Republican Convention is held in a city-owned venue. The convention center management company tried to throw up a "no guns" rule. State preemption for the win!

The Virginia Republican Party realized that "no guns" was a major issue with the membership and has never tried to impose a "no guns" rule of their own.

I understand that Michiganders cannot carry in places with large seating capacity, but are free to take their guns places where only a few people will be killed when those guns go off on a killing spree by themself.

stay safe.

TheQ · Feb 23, 2013

Ezerharden said:
I assume this is held on private property. Imagine the "pro gun" GOP with that kind of attitude.

Lansing Center, owned by LEPFA -- an authority.

Raggs · Feb 23, 2013

TheQ said:
Lansing Center, owned by LEPFA -- an authority.

But rented by th GOP?

scot623 · Feb 23, 2013

Raggs said:
But rented by th GOP?

Yup. Which means it was the GOP's choice to not allow guns, since we know Authorities can not ban them. If the convention was held on private property, perhaps the building owners could have banned guns and the GOP would have zero say on the issue. None the less, that was not the case here. The GOP chose to ban firearms carry, no one else.

I'm embarrassed for the party I most align myself with.

Bikenut · Feb 23, 2013

Ok... off the top of my head (and please do feel free to correct me) according to my understanding...

Until the Michigan Supreme Court renders a ruling the Appeals Court decision rendered in the CADL vs MOC case that the Michigan legislature occupies the entire field of firearms regulation and that an "authority" created by units of State government cannot have any rules/policies in violation of State law....

And that the MOC vs Ferndale case showed that a renter of a property owned by a unit of government also cannot have any rules/policies in violation of State law....

Exactly what legal standing does the GOP have for banning guns on property... owned by an "authority" that is subject to State law?

Ok..... that is the legal part of it... and now...

Here is the important part of it...

Does anyone still have any doubt that the Republican party is nothing more than a reflection of the Democrat party... and that the Democrat party is nothing more than a reflection of the Republican party... and that both are nothing more than a subsection of the Progressive Socialist party?

smellslikemichigan · Feb 23, 2013

2 sides of the same coin

Michigander · Feb 23, 2013

Yep, both the same garbage masquerading as leaders attempting to bring about change.

But my thing is that I feel like the gun issue is the thing I can have influence in, since that is my specialty. And it is in that sense that for issues like this I'd make my primary goal be to give them a really hard time about their illegal no guns rule.

detroit_fan · Feb 23, 2013

with "friends" like these, who needs enemies?

TheQ · Feb 23, 2013

DetroitBiker said:
How many people were openly carrying?
and were there metal detectors at the entrance? , if not how would they know if people were carrying concealed

About a half dozen I know of. Only two of us were "caught" and booted.

No metal detectors, but they told me CC was banned too.

TheQ · Feb 23, 2013

Bikenut said:
Ok... off the top of my head (and please do feel free to correct me) according to my understanding...

Until the Michigan Supreme Court renders a ruling the Appeals Court decision rendered in the CADL vs MOC case that the Michigan legislature occupies the entire field of firearms regulation and that an "authority" created by units of State government cannot have any rules/policies in violation of State law....

Correct. Unless SCoM overturns it, authorities can't ban guns.

Bikenut said:
And that the MOC vs Ferndale case showed that a renter of a property owned by a unit of government also cannot have any rules/policies in violation of State law....

There was no "MOC v Ferndale" case. I think you may be getting MCRGO v Ferndale (Michigan CoA, 2002) confused with the Royal Oaks Art's Beats and Eats affair. The ABE situation was resolved with greassroots and media pressure, with no court case involvement. There is zero legal president on the question of whether a Local Unit of Government can lease up property to people who can ban guns. I've spoken to two reputable 2A laws in Michigan who say the Private organization renting public space probably could ban guns. They both agreed it would make an interesting case and there is no case law (binding or otherwise) on the question.

Bikenut said:
Exactly what legal standing does the GOP have for banning guns on property... owned by an "authority" that is subject to State law?

Ok..... that is the legal part of it... and now...

Bikenut said:
Here is the important part of it...

Does anyone still have any doubt that the Republican party is nothing more than a reflection of the Democrat party... and that the Democrat party is nothing more than a reflection of the Republican party... and that both are nothing more than a subsection of the Progressive Socialist party?

No doubt at all. Speaking of the Democrats, Pat Dunbar tells me his son openly carried today at the Democratic state convention and not a word was said to him -- interesting.

TheQ · Feb 23, 2013

Video of the entire incident:

http://qik.com/video/57404719

Here's how it went down: Tony DeMott (The State Coordinator for Michigan Campaign for Liberty) left the convention hall to have a smoke outside. On the way out he ran into a security guard in the main hallway. The security guard told him he would have to disarm to come back in. Tony said, "wait one moment" and called me -- I was still inside.

I came out to the situation, camera rolling. What happens next is above.

Bikenut · Feb 23, 2013

TheQ said:
Correct. Unless SCoM overturns it, authorities can't ban guns.

There was no "MOC v Ferndale" case. I think you may be getting MCRGO v Ferndale (Michigan CoA, 2002) confused with the Royal Oaks Art's Beats and Eats affair. The ABE situation was resolved with greassroots and media pressure, with no court case involvement. There is zero legal president on the question of whether a Local Unit of Government can lease up property to people who can ban guns. I've spoken to two reputable 2A laws in Michigan who say the Private organization renting public space probably could ban guns. They both agreed it would make an interesting case and there is no case law (binding or otherwise) on the question.

No doubt at all. Speaking of the Democrats, Pat Dunbar tells me his son openly carried today at the Democratic state convention and not a word was said to him -- interesting.

Thank you for the clarification concerning my mixing up MOC with MCRGO in the Ferdale case. My mistake.

mikestilly · Feb 24, 2013

I'm not real surprised by his response. I can tell you this, when I was actively supporting Mike Cox for governor I went to every GOP event open carrying without issue, including the convention, and an event at Lawrence Tech University. My comment to them would be if you're trying to represent the GOP party as pro-gun party how can you host an event in a place where their policy is to ban firearms. It's one of the many contradictions I've seen.

Considering the times we're in where members of the parties are looking to draw up an anti-gun compromise bill. I'd like to see how pro-gun the party really is. Someone should confront these people (GOP leadership in Michigan) on their stances as a pro-gun party and are they willing to address the issue at hand. The answers would be interesting.

DrTodd · Feb 24, 2013

skidmark said:
Te Virginia Republican Convention is held in a city-owned venue. The convention center management company tried to throw up a "no guns" rule. State preemption for the win!

The Virginia Republican Party realized that "no guns" was a major issue with the membership and has never tried to impose a "no guns" rule of their own.

I understand that Michiganders cannot carry in places with large seating capacity, but are free to take their guns places where only a few people will be killed when those guns go off on a killing spree by themself.

stay safe.

Although CC MAY be prohibited under Michigan law, OC by a person with a CPL in that venue is not. Furthermore, a recent Michigan Appeals Court decision held that an "authority" is preempted from enacting and or enforcing any firearms policy contrary to state law; the Legislature of the State of Michigan has fully occupied the field of regulation. Currently, the aforementioned case is being appealed to the Michigan Supreme Court and we should know soon whether the Supreme Court will hear the case or let it stand.

detroit_fan · Feb 25, 2013

Open carry advocate claims Michigan Republican Party kept his gun out of state conven

An open-carry advocate who has spoken about gun rights at some recent Grand Rapids City Commission meetings apparently was forced to empty his holster at last weekend’s Michigan Republican Party convention.

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/02/open_carry_advocate_claims_mic.html

TheQ · Feb 25, 2013

There has been dialog, both publicly and privately on the matter.

Bobby Schostak has issued this public statement:

Sorry I haven’t had a chance to reply sooner. Already busy at work preparing for 2014! I won’t go into motives, I think they’re pretty evident but here are the facts regarding the recent dispute about the open-carry issue at the Michigan Republican Party Convention on Saturday. The Lansing Center has a policy that does not allow open carry or CCW on their premises. We entered into a contract with the Lansing Center. On Saturday, when it was brought to our attention, we disagreed with the policy, but our contract requires we adhere to their policies. Cheap political attacks on Carl Berry are ridiculous, he’s a long time Republican, grassroots activists, and he volunteered to serve as Sergeant-at-Arms. The security guard in the video was wrong, it was not our policy. I look forward to continuing to build and strengthen our party, and that requires us to positively engage with one another, but I will not tolerate unnecessary and untruthful political attacks whether they come from the Democratic Party or a member of our party. There’s too much at stake in 2014, let’s stay focused and work together. Thanks for all the support and positive feedback!

I have issued this statement in response:

Mr. Schostak. I thank you for addressing this issue that is very important to our party, our base, and our grassroots -- the right to Keep and Bear Arms!!

CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc. (MI Court of Appeals, 2012) (I am the president of MOC) found that the State Legislature intended to occupy the field to the exclusion of all other local government regulation -- including regulation of "Authorities" such as LEPFA (the owner of the Lansing Center).

Given this, the Lansing Center's policy is preempted and unlawful. When we asked Mr. Berry if we had to put our guns in the car, he said yes (clearly seen on the video). Given that the Lansing Center's security guard had told us his request that we put our guns in the car came from the GOP Sgt. At Arms, you can understand why we were a bit concerned and wanted confirmation on this point.

Today I had the pleasure to speak to Mr. Matt Frendewey about this matter. He and I came to the agreement that going forward MOC will work with MiGOP as you select your convention locations. If the location is an "authority" or other local government, we will be happy to work with you to get that venue to see the error in the way of their policy so we can handle these issues preemptively rather than reactively and in a way that creates confusion and division.

I hope Mr. Frendewey was correct and sincere in stating your leadership team would like to work together to prevent these problems in the future. If you are sincerely interested in preventing this unfortunate confusion in the future, I hope you will reach out to me -- PHofmeister@miopencarry.org.

Kind Regards,

Phillip Hofmeister
President
Michigan Open Carry, Inc

PS, you may be able to do a lot to show gun owners in Michigan that you and MiGOP support the right to keep and bear by writing a letter of support regarding SB 213. I'm sure Sen. Mike Green's office would love to work with you on that letter.

PSS. I am/was a Todd Courser backer, but let's not allow that to cloud the issue. If you tell me you're open to working on this matter, I will believe that until you show me otherwise.

bb · Feb 25, 2013

TheQ said:
There has been dialog, both publicly and privately on the matter.

Bobby Schostak has issued this public statement:

I have issued this statement in response:

Shouldn't the word be that instead of hat before venue

Shadow Bear · Feb 25, 2013

My crops aren't growing as well as they should. I think Horshack's memo would be ever so much more effective on my fields than the usual fertilizer.

Just remember; if it smells like strong manure, there's a professional politician nearby.....

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