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Vernal, UT police trample the 4th Amendment

1245A Defender

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north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

While you are correct, that we do not know the true meaning of his post. If you legally "kick their butts out" you are a little more tactful with your wording and methodology and would not use the term "Kicking their butts out" and would use a term of "Rejecting entry to property with legal notification and paperwork". Using the term "kick their butts out" immediately shows physical altercation would be immediately dispensed upon entry into the property.

But when you have 6-7 cops at your door and they say they want into your place... guess what they are coming in whether you like it or not. Do you think you will talk them out of your house? No you will not. Do you think you can physically refrain the police from entering your house? No, its a case of futility and you will end up dead. Its incredibly unbecoming to see postings of "Resist" on a public forum that is accessible by any and anyone.

Yes You Can!!!

Ask MKE Gal.... She DID.. stop many cops from entering her house . for some time!

I!!!! Would stop some Cops from entering my house.... EVER!!!!

I am 60, I am ready, I am able, I WILL stand MY ground!!!!

I know many, that are younger, that have more to lose, that will do the same..
I call them ... Patriots!
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Cumming, Georgia, USA
Law or not, I would have kicked their butts out just for showing no decency or respect.
You keep saying you'd do these rash things. You keep encouraging others to do so. Yet, not once have you ever related one single instance of your having stood up in one of the stupid ways you advocate.

All I see is bluster, sound and fury signifying nothing.

We have a lot of folks on this site who have actually risked life and Liberty for the Right. Folks who talk a lot, but do nothing look pretty childish next to real action.

Note that I am not saying you should do any of the stupid stuff you advocate, just that you might just want to shut up for a while and listen to folks who have actually taken intelligent risks for the cause.
David McBeth serves a valuable purpose on these forums, mostly as an example of the utmost wrong-headed and stupid thing to do. I can only surmise that it has to be an act, as he can't possibly be that obtuse.
 

OC for ME

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Based on his posting history and the "legal" advice" he has posted in the past, barring a specific denial, the most reasonable conclusion is that he is being literal. Based on other facets of his track record, I wouldn't be predisposed to believe any denial.

I don't expect, but we should get, a denial.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
Irrefutable fact.

While you are correct, that we do not know the true meaning of his post. <snip>
See eye95's post above. I do not disagree with any of the remainder of your post. Well stated Sir.

Reasonable citizens must be sure that reasonable conclusions are drawn by the newer members of OCDO. I used to fly off half-cocked because I knew what I meant and had the attitude that you should have known what I meant. I am some what more mature in this regard. I am not as mature as I need to be in other areas.....if my wife is correct that is. And would not argue that she is incorrect.....cuz she can read these very words too.
 

moriar

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Alexandria, VA
Yes You Can!!!

Ask MKE Gal.... She DID.. stop many cops from entering her house . for some time!

I!!!! Would stop some Cops from entering my house.... EVER!!!!

I am 60, I am ready, I am able, I WILL stand MY ground!!!!

I know many, that are younger, that have more to lose, that will do the same..
I call them ... Patriots!

I wholeheartedly agree that you should defend your home from illegal entry, but when the Police can use a laundry list of exigent reasoning to gain entry, aka "We believe that there are Controlled Substances that are not in the owners name" guess what, They have just gained legal entry into your home. Your only recourse at that time is to just sit down on the porch while they rile through your belongings and you wait till your Court Date, and once that day arrives you then say in Court that XYZ were not a legal entry and that any and all charges should be dropped due to you were not illegally selling the narcotics and that you were still grieving and were planning on safe disposal of the medication.

Now a days you cannot physically resist a police entry, You will end up dead and then branded XYZ and placed on television. Which then adds fuel to the Anti-Gun people as saying "These "Patriots" shoot at innocent cops we need to take the guns away completely".
 

EMNofSeattle

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You keep saying you'd do these rash things. You keep encouraging others to do so. Yet, not once have you ever related one single instance of your having stood up in one of the stupid ways you advocate.

All I see is bluster, sound and fury signifying nothing.

We have a lot of folks on this site who have actually risked life and Liberty for the Right. Folks who talk a lot, but do nothing look pretty childish next to real action.

Note that I am not saying you should do any of the stupid stuff you advocate, just that you might just want to shut up for a while and listen to folks who have actually taken intelligent risks for the cause.

He did once say he was selling pistols to residents of Chicago, but his recent posts he is implying he lives in CT. So I would just consider him a felon who hasn't been caught yet (or maybe he has, some of the nicer federal pens allow Internet access) but needless to say, newbies and lurkers, davidmacbeth is not your friend. Do not follow any advice he gives you....
 

MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
Ca Patriot said:
The exception is if the patient is under the care of a physician.
Hospice care always involves a physician.
...
There should really be no police involved for the death of hospice patients.
+1

1245A Defender said:
Yes You Can!!!
Ask MKE Gal.... She DID.. stop many cops from entering her house for some time!
I'd forgotten I sent you that YouTube link...
And yes, while I did delay their entry for a while, they did eventually break open my door, tackle & handcuff me, and search the house.
The civil rights case is still in federal court. :mad:
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
+1


I'd forgotten I sent you that YouTube link...
And yes, while I did delay their entry for a while, they did eventually break open my door, tackle & handcuff me, and search the house.
The civil rights case is still in federal court. :mad:

Wow! I didn't hear about this. I am interested, do you need help with legal funds?
 

justherenow

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, ,
My father passed away in his sleep at home last year. Upon the 911 fall, medics and a police officer responded. On my state, any in home deaths require a police response to ensure a crime has not occurred. Once the medic determined he was deceased, they made contact with his doctor who agreed to sign off on the death certificate,once done they left. The police officer stayed at the home, he is the one who arranged for my fathers body to be picked up by the funeral home, he stayed until that occured. Never once did he try to search the home or ask about medication. He was professional and provided a lot of support for our family at that tragic time

______
Sent from my mobile device
 

eye95

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A 911 call about someone being dead is gonna get the police involved, regardless of State law! I wouldn't involve 911 unless I think emergency services could help. Some examples: The death was unexpected, there is a chance of revival (and that revival is desired by the potential revivee), the cause of death is suspicious, the cause of death is violent, the death is likely a crime, and the like.

If I know a family member is about to pass, I'd try to have a medical professional on hand. If they pass unattended, I'd call the doctor, not 911.

Remember, every 911 call is an invitation to the police to come on in. Vampires must be invited in, must have a warrant, or must have exigent circumstances. Vampires count on inadvertent invitations! It's how them make their deadlihood.
 

EMNofSeattle

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I'm not sure about police, but in Kitsap County the coroner has to investigate all deaths in the county. obviously he doesn't do this himself, he has 6 "deputies" who do that. deputy coroners in my county have blue lights in their cars, carry badges that resemble sheriff badges (except they say "coroner" instead of sheriff) and prior the 1998 deputy coroners in kitsap county were even issued and required to carry firearms!

even though they're not technically LEOs.

even if you don't call the police or medical when someone dies, the coroner will likely investigate, they find anything suspicious on the police will be right there at your house with a warrant.

What i've always wondered about was "welfare checks" last year my great grandfather (who's 88) was checking up on his neighbor (who lives alone and was 84 I believe) so my great grandfather goes to check on his neighbor like he did every other day, and no one answered the door. so he called the Port Orchard Police, who booted in the neighbors door and found him injured in the house, he had fallen and couldn't reach the phone. (just wait, I'm sure Citizen is going to show up and say "HE HAD THE RIGHT TO SLOWLY DIE IN PEACE WITHOUT THUGGISH COPS ENTERING HIS HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT")
 

eye95

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There is a difference between investigating a death, and entering or searching someone's home just because someone has died. Until and unless PC develops, no State agent has any authority the usurp the 4A rights of the folks living there.

If someone dies peacefully in my home and the police want to take a look-see only because there has been a death, I will demand a warrant. If they do not produce one, my lack of consent to their entry will be on the recording, and they will be answerable in court for their behavior.


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<o>
 

EMNofSeattle

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There is a difference between investigating a death, and entering or searching someone's home just because someone has died. Until and unless PC develops, no State agent has any authority the usurp the 4A rights of the folks living there.

If someone dies peacefully in my home and the police want to take a look-see only because there has been a death, I will demand a warrant. If they do not produce one, my lack of consent to their entry will be on the recording, and they will be answerable in court for their behavior.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

but since the coroner must investigate deaths, if they enter your home to investigate, it's practically the same thing since they have Quasi-LEO powers and carry LEO equipment (cuffs, badges, SOMETIMES a gun) and apparently they can serve arrest warrants issued by the coroner too in this state....

my guess is that any court will readily grant a warrant if someone is dead in the house (and especially if you're blocking them from entering) the cops will only need to say "they reported someone dead to someone other then paramedics, dead guy is in the house, they're not letting the coroner or us look at the dead guy, we believe there may have been foul play" judge will say "thanks officer, warrant will be on your sergeants desk in the hour, go ahead" then they'll tear your house apart. at the very least if you "consent" you can try to make an argument you were coerced into a consenting. you'll having nothing to challenge if they get a warrant (and dead guy in the house is probably all they need for one in most cases)

and in the event you let them in the house to look at the dead guy their intrusion is limited only to what's in plain view, which you should keep your drugs and illegally converted full auto-SBRs and the shipment of pistols that DavidMacbeth is traffiking to Chicago locked up anyway, but if they get a warrant the limits are only what the judge will impose, which will be minimal and nearly everything will be open to being broken, tossed, ruffled throug... so in some cases consenting may be the better option.
 
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eye95

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I used the term "State agent." I don't care what title they use, without a warrant because of PC or exigent circumstances, they ain't entering my house except that my lack of consent and their ignoring of it will be recorded. They will have to answer in court.

If the coroner wants to investigate, he may examine the body after it has been removed and investigate to his heart's content. If he then develops PC, he may ask a judge for a warrant. Until then, not matter what he thinks, he has no constitutional authority to enter my home.
 

EMNofSeattle

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I used the term "State agent." I don't care what title they use, without a warrant because of PC or exigent circumstances, they ain't entering my house except that my lack of consent and their ignoring of it will be recorded. They will have to answer in court.

If the coroner wants to investigate, he may examine the body after it has been removed and investigate to his heart's content. If he then develops PC, he may ask a judge for a warrant. Until then, not matter what he thinks, he has no constitutional authority to enter my home.

"uh, Judge we need a search warrant"

"why"

"Well see this guy's older relative died and the body is in the house, and they won't let the paramedics or us or the coroners in to the house without a warrant"

"how do you know there's a dead body in the house?"

"well because they called their doctor first, and he thought grandpa was in good health at the last check up with no long term medical issues so the doctor called us, and I searched this guy's name, and found an article saying he went by "Eye95" on electronic forums, so i searched the forum and found a post saying he pre-meditated avoiding government authorities and obstructing investigations by calling civilians instead of a paramedic or an deputy coroner"

"very well detective, warrant's signed, you may enter his premises right away"


it's really not doing anything in your favor if you know one way or another the search is happening and one way will make it far less intrusive....
 
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eye95

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Do you really think that demanding a warrant before letting the government come into one's house at will is obstructing??? Wow.

Ya know, when I first ran into you on OCDO, I really thought that you did not have the LEO mindset that makes folks who love Liberty so distrusting of them. Either your mindset has been changed, or I totally misjudged you.

Either way, right now, I have zero respect for your ability to uphold any oath you took to the Constitution. God help you if you ever violate my rights. I WILL go to the mattresses.

Moving on.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Do you really think that demanding a warrant before letting the government come into one's house at will is obstructing??? Wow.

Ya know, when I first ran into you on OCDO, I really thought that you did not have the LEO mindset that makes folks who love Liberty so distrusting of them. Either your mindset has been changed, or I totally misjudged you.

Either way, right now, I have zero respect for your ability to uphold any oath you took to the Constitution. God help you if you ever violate my rights. I WILL go to the mattresses.

Moving on.

It depends I think i'm protecting my privacy greater. if someone is dead i want them out of my house with the least fuss and hesitation. is your doctor going to come move the body out of your house?

please, is the same person who said the president has unilateral authority to declare any citizen a member of "al-qaeda" and use drone strikes to kill people from above by justifying it as "the war on terror" is now saying I'm an enemy of liberty. am I such an enemy that I can be droned with no kind of probable cause?

does the government need a warrant to drone strike your house if someone in the government thinks you need military style correcting? Huh Mr. Liberty? you've previously shown loads of contempt for the constitution, and now you're dressing yourself in it and claiming I'm anti-liberty because I've pointed out that it's pointless to deny the cops when there is dead bodies laying around. I never said you shouldn't have that option, only that a warrant is guaranteed and that resisting will lead to more pain and more obstruction of your affairs.

no btw, I'm not saying demanding a warrant is "obstructing" I'm pointing out what's going to be said when they're arguing for a warrant, your comments about calling your doctor first plus complaint from someone of dead body will provide all the PC they need for a search warrant to find evidence of first degree murder, meaning your entire house and any other property you own gets the crash and trash from the local authorities. Frankly if you think tens of thousands in legal fees and replacing damaged items and the undue mental strain of being fingered as a homicide suspect plus 15K to any bondsman to get your ass out of jail while the prosecutor has you sweating bullets as they tear apart your personal life for anything that can be used against you is the preferable alternative to "Grandpa Jenkins was 79 we think he had a heart attack" and quick clearance then go right ahead and do so it is your right, but for me, the coroner can just cart him away. and the cops can take a look and write their report...
 
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OC for ME

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"uh, Judge we need a search warrant"

"why"

"Well see this guy's older relative died and the body is in the house, and they won't let the paramedics or us or the coroners in to the house without a warrant"

"how do you know there's a dead body in the house?"

"well because they called their doctor first, and he thought grandpa was in good health at the last check up with no long term medical issues so the doctor called us, and I searched this guy's name, and found an article saying he went by "Eye95" on electronic forums, so i searched the forum and found a post saying he pre-meditated avoiding government authorities and obstructing investigations by calling civilians instead of a paramedic or an deputy coroner"

"very well detective, warrant's signed, you may enter his premises right away"


it's really not doing anything in your favor if you know one way or another the search is happening and one way will make it far less intrusive....
A whole lotta assumin is goin on here. Adding "facts" to suit your premise is a routine for you.

eye95 can speak for himself.....but.....

eye95: I used the term "State agent." I don't care what title they use, without a warrant because of PC or exigent circumstances, they ain't entering my house except that my lack of consent and their ignoring of it will be recorded. They will have to answer in court.
 
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