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Thread: law enforcement officers safety act improvements act of 2010 HR218

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    law enforcement officers safety act improvements act of 2010 HR218

    I was wondering how many do we have on this site carrying under HR218 law enforcement officers safety act improvements act of 2010 and if you have had to show your ID and if so, if you had any issues with it with the LEO's.

    I got stopped several times when I lived in Baraboo and showed it to them and didn't have any issues with the LEO's knowing about it. I have yet to be stopped out of state which should be interesting as I carry everywhere I go.

    I carry open in this state, however when I get in my vehicle I leave it on my side as I get in the vehicle as then I would be carrying concealed, I'm just waiting for LEO to see me get in my vehicle going from open to concealed carry keeping it strapped to my side and for them to stop me, which should be interesting.

    I would immagine that anyone who has a CCW with Wisconsin does the same.

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    Never been stopped or asked about it so I could't tell your if there is any trouble.

    I know that when I read Marylands law they wanted you to carry all kinds of proof beside your retirement creds and cert card.

    Personally I try and advoid hard core anti gun states and areas. Most of them have nothing I need to see there anyway. I like to travel in wild areas and most of the states that have them are very gun friendly.
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    I've never ran into any problems from another LEO. And I've carried openly and concealed in several states. I even took my Glock with me to NYC and didn't have a problem with it. (some folks on this board and another had conniptions about it).
    Last edited by pkbites; 02-24-2013 at 01:47 PM.

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    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    I think that professional courtesy comes into play a lot in these types of scenarios. That's why we likely don't hear very much about it. But boy when off duty officer's get kicked out or denied entry etc boy do they make a big deal of it. I have read in NYC and Philly they harass even off duty officers of other departments or states.
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 02-24-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I only carry open, and if I decided to conceal I would get a permit to avoid any possible hassle. Besides the fact I think it is wrong because I am a retired police officer I should have more opportunity for safety than those who are not. And RLEO have to follow the same laws as civilians. I had a CHP let it drop after the law passed, may have to get one again if the continued numpties in the legislature keep trying to tie open carry rights to privilege cards.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I've never ran into any problems from another LEO. And I've carried openly and concealed in several states. I even took my Glock with me to NYC and didn't have a problem with it. (some folks on this board and another had conniptions about it).
    I am not doubting you but I have not read any conniptions, could you post links?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I am not doubting you but I have not read any conniptions, could you post links?

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...be-any-hassles


    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=623979


    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=624089


    I should know better than to ask a board full of liberals for advice about carrying. I was just looking to see if anyone has ever taken their pistol to NYC.

    I also posted on a police board but as of now I can't find it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...be-any-hassles


    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=623979


    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=624089


    I should know better than to ask a board full of liberals for advice about carrying. I was just looking to see if anyone has ever taken their pistol to NYC.

    I also posted on a police board but as of now I can't find it.
    First off I am probably the last person on here that would be considered a liberal, because I asked a question as to something I had not seen it only shows ignorance to assume.

    Now the only thread I looked at was the OCDO thread as that is what you referenced to "conniption", and while I saw some discussion I did not see it, but I did not and do not intend on spending hours searching a thread for one or two instances you claim is there. You do know you can link the specific post don't you? IMO your post above appears more like a "conniption" to me. You also have to consider that to non RLEO's the law is a insult, there is no doubt about that. So what did you expect, what do you expect now? I don't get it, take your paperwork and your gun, and don't gloat and then whimper because you don't like the reaction. You were a cop, you should be able to read and understand law, if you don't you should have never been a cop. And when it all boils down to it, if you have a serious question, you should not be asking us, you should be reading my signature line below.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 02-24-2013 at 06:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    First off I am probably the last person on here that would be considered a liberal, because I asked a question as to something I had not seen it only shows ignorance to assume.
    I was referring to the links to the Straight Dope Board. It's about 90% liberal. But there are some cops on it from out east. I thought maybe someone had experience flying into NYC with a pistol.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You were a cop
    Still am.


    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    you should be able to read and understand law
    I certainly can. My inquiry was whether or not NYC officers do. I was asking to see if others had any experiences. The majority of these threads are people posting about their experiences and asking others about theirs.
    Last edited by pkbites; 02-24-2013 at 07:03 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    I was referring to the links to the Straight Dope Board. It's about 90% liberal. But there are some cops on it from out east. I thought maybe someone had experience flying into NYC with a pistol.



    I was asking for others experiences. The majority of these threads are people posting about their experiences. I certainly know the law. I was just curious if there was going to be any hassles in Bloombergs NYC.
    Asking that is not a form of ignorance.
    You should be on the NYS sub forum with this, if you are really concerned you should contacting a NYS attorney. Experiences of strangers really means jack when your butt is on the line. This person could get a steak dinner and a pat on the back, another might find himself in cuffs until his background is researched. The law does not give you privileges ordinary citizens do not have as far as restrictions where you can carry, I assume you know this. You could still find your tit in a wringer if you get pulled over in a GFSZ.

    Just personally if it was me, I would just leave the gun at home or stay out of NYS. But that is me not you, it is up to you to make a decision based on what you are comfortable with. If you don't mind a possible hassle, go for it.

    Remember when you are criticizing liberals though, that Teddy Kennedy was one of the people responsible for that law. I am not exactly sure what he was thinking, but it was both liberals and conservatives that pushed it through.

    And I realize I should have been addressing the OP instead of you, sorry about that. After all he was the one originally asking.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 02-24-2013 at 07:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You should be on the NYS sub forum with this.
    Pay a bit of attention and you'll see that it was in the NYS forum.

    And it was almost a year and a half ago. I took my Glock, flew to, and then later out of Laguardia. Had no problems. Also had no problems while carrying in Manhattan.

    Didn't OC there, though.
    Last edited by pkbites; 02-24-2013 at 09:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Remember when you are criticizing liberals though, that Teddy Kennedy was one of the people responsible for that law.
    So? I'm supposed to lay off the liberal gun grabbers for doing me one favor that, at the same time, kicks other law abiding gun owners in the nuts?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    So? I'm supposed to lay off the liberal gun grabbers for doing me one favor that, at the same time, kicks other law abiding gun owners in the nuts?
    As far as this law is concerned both sides are responsible for it, I am not a fan of liberals but I believe in being honest. And another problem with just pinning everything on liberals is that conservative politicians tend to become more liberal when liberals have less influence, such as happened during the Bush administration.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    As far as this law is concerned both sides are responsible for it, I am not a fan of liberals but I believe in being honest. And another problem with just pinning everything on liberals is that conservative politicians tend to become more liberal when liberals have less influence, such as happened during the Bush administration.

    You're mistaking party and ideologies.

    I never once mentioned any particular political party.

    Nor did I mention the word "conservative". I never once endorsed any political position or party on this thread, only disparaged a political position. Didn't endorse another, did I? Did I?

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    Parole Agents problems with documentation HR218

    In Illinois Parole Agents are considered peace officers by stature and also fit the definitions in HR218 however the Illinois Department of Corrections (IDOC) refuses to complete the verification of employment form that is required by IROC (Illinois Retired Officer Concealed Carry Program) which is managed by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board.

    I further see in the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements Act of 2010 (S. 1132)

    (c) RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.—Section 926C of
    title 18, United States Code is amended—
    described in subsection (d)(1);’’;
    (2) in subsection (d)—
    (A) paragraph (1)—
    (ii) in subparagraph (B), by striking ‘‘that
    indicates’’ and all that follows through the period and
    inserting ‘‘or by a certified firearms instructor that
    is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test
    for active duty officers within that State that indicates
    that the individual has, not less than 1 year before
    the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm,
    been tested or otherwise found by the State or
    a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct
    a firearms qualification test for active duty officers


    I am assuming here retired agents go to a certified firearms instructor to qualify but the problem still exists of where one would get documentation and be entered into the national database.

    Some agents are talking about entering into litigation with the state but as we all know this can be a costly and time consuming effort. I plan to contact the FOP and legislators on both the state and federal level to lean on IDOC but am looking for any other suggestions you all may have. Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiurato View Post
    I am assuming here retired agents go to a certified firearms instructor to qualify but the problem still exists of where one would get documentation and be entered into the national database..
    As far as I know there is no national data base to check to you have some ref. to this.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn
    ...when I get in my vehicle I leave it on my side as I get in the vehicle as then I would be carrying concealed, I'm just waiting for LEO to see me get in my vehicle going from open to concealed carry keeping it strapped to my side and for them to stop me, which should be interesting.

    That's the whole problem. There are still people relying on old case law, instead of the current real laws.
    That ruling was made before the WI Constitutional amendment protecting RKBA, before Act 35 changed the transport statute for pistols, and before (can't remember the number) the other Act changed the transport statute for long guns.
    At best, the situation is confusing & the legislature needs to clarify that simply getting into a car does not magically make OC into cc.
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    Firearms training

    The Federal Department of Justice Bureau of Prisons also refuses to provide paperwork, however they did provide the credentials (Picture ID). All you need is credentials and to qualify yearly for your firearms utilizing the same qualifications you had when you worked for the department. Those of us who are retired get qualified through a former CO who is a NRA firearms instructor for Wisconsin HR218 states “a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers” in other words, if you can get the firearm qualification parameters from the department you worked for and have a instructor qualify you to those perimeters you can carry concealed without having to qualify to state standards.

    There is no requirment to be entered into the national database, I''ve not had a problem with LEO when showing them my Federal Concealed Carry credentials.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chiurato View Post
    In Illinois Parole Agents are considered peace officers by stature and also fit the definitions in HR218 however the Illinois Department of Corrections (IDOC) refuses to complete the verification of employment form that is required by IROC (Illinois Retired Officer Concealed Carry Program) which is managed by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board.

    I further see in the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements Act of 2010 (S. 1132)

    (c) RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.—Section 926C of
    title 18, United States Code is amended—
    described in subsection (d)(1);’’;
    (2) in subsection (d)—
    (A) paragraph (1)—
    (ii) in subparagraph (B), by striking ‘‘that
    indicates’’ and all that follows through the period and
    inserting ‘‘or by a certified firearms instructor that
    is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test
    for active duty officers within that State that indicates
    that the individual has, not less than 1 year before
    the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm,
    been tested or otherwise found by the State or
    a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct
    a firearms qualification test for active duty officers


    I am assuming here retired agents go to a certified firearms instructor to qualify but the problem still exists of where one would get documentation and be entered into the national database.

    Some agents are talking about entering into litigation with the state but as we all know this can be a costly and time consuming effort. I plan to contact the FOP and legislators on both the state and federal level to lean on IDOC but am looking for any other suggestions you all may have. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by cowboyridn; 03-07-2013 at 09:49 AM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    ID

    Email me and I'll send you a copy of my ID and firearms qualification so you can see what it states, you can word yours the same.

    drm2134@yahoo.com



    Quote Originally Posted by Chiurato View Post
    In Illinois Parole Agents are considered peace officers by stature and also fit the definitions in HR218 however the Illinois Department of Corrections (IDOC) refuses to complete the verification of employment form that is required by IROC (Illinois Retired Officer Concealed Carry Program) which is managed by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board.

    I further see in the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements Act of 2010 (S. 1132)

    (c) RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.—Section 926C of
    title 18, United States Code is amended—
    described in subsection (d)(1);’’;
    (2) in subsection (d)—
    (A) paragraph (1)—
    (ii) in subparagraph (B), by striking ‘‘that
    indicates’’ and all that follows through the period and
    inserting ‘‘or by a certified firearms instructor that
    is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test
    for active duty officers within that State that indicates
    that the individual has, not less than 1 year before
    the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm,
    been tested or otherwise found by the State or
    a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct
    a firearms qualification test for active duty officers


    I am assuming here retired agents go to a certified firearms instructor to qualify but the problem still exists of where one would get documentation and be entered into the national database.

    Some agents are talking about entering into litigation with the state but as we all know this can be a costly and time consuming effort. I plan to contact the FOP and legislators on both the state and federal level to lean on IDOC but am looking for any other suggestions you all may have. Thanks in advance.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiurato View Post

    Some agents are talking about entering into litigation with the state but as we all know this can be a costly and time consuming effort. I plan to contact the FOP and legislators on both the state and federal level to lean on IDOC but am looking for any other suggestions you all may have. Thanks in advance.
    Why don't you fight for the rights of everybody instead of just yourself. IL is about to get concealed or/and open carry, with considerably less hassle than LEOSA. YOU and I do not deserve more rights, or more safety than our non RLEO brothers and sisters. I can't understand anybody who takes a oath to the constitution thinking this law is a good thing, unless they are being selfish.
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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    U.S. District Court Rules against Retired Officers in HR 218/LEOSA Case

    This issue has been tried in U.S. District Court

    http://www.policelawblog.com/blog/20...eosa-case.html



    Some agents are talking about entering into litigation with the state but as we all know this can be a costly and time consuming effort. I plan to contact the FOP and legislators on both the state and federal level to lean on IDOC but am looking for any other suggestions you all may have. Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyridn View Post
    This issue has been tried in U.S. District Court

    http://www.policelawblog.com/blog/20...eosa-case.html



    Some agents are talking about entering into litigation with the state but as we all know this can be a costly and time consuming effort. I plan to contact the FOP and legislators on both the state and federal level to lean on IDOC but am looking for any other suggestions you all may have. Thanks in advance.
    If I'm reading the link correctly the suit was dismissed on the grounds that the feds do not have the legal or constitutional authority to order the state to provide retired credentials. That seems like the proper ruling to me.
    The law has no enforcement actions that I'm aware of. And there is no "voluntary" provisions either, like the national speed limit did ("you can post any limit you want, but we'll withhold highway funds if it exceeds 55").

    Here in Wisconsin the law on retired officer certification cards was tweaked in 2011 to add the word "shall" to it's language. Meaning an agency has to issue the cards if the officer qualifies and requests one. When I retired in '07 my agency at the time wouldn't issue one, which is one reason why I took a part-time patrol gig with another department after I had retired. It allowed me to keep my certification and peace officer status. My old agency has since changed their tune. I have heard that there are some chiefs and sheriffs that still won't issue them. Eventually there will be a law suit on that, but it will be in state court because it is a state law.

    But it's all absurd anyway, isn't it? This state, and the entire country for that fact, needs to obey the supreme law of the land and have Constitutional carry. No more location restrictions, no more licenses or permits, and no more special classes of people. It's all such a crock.
    Last edited by pkbites; 03-07-2013 at 04:58 PM. Reason: SpElInG

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf
    Why don't you fight for the rights of everybody instead of just yourself... YOU and I do not deserve more rights, or more safety than our non RLEO brothers and sisters.
    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites
    This state, and the entire country for that fact, needs to obey the supreme law of the land and have Constitutional carry. No more location restrictions, no more licenses or permits, and no more special classes of people. It's all such a crock.
    Why can't there be more LEO like you (pl)?
    (Or have I just had the supreme bad luck to run into the few who still think like Flynn?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Why can't there be more LEO like you (pl)?
    (Or have I just had the supreme bad luck to run into the few who still think like Flynn?)
    Bad policy, bad administration, leads to bad decisions.

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  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Why can't there be more LEO like you (pl)?
    (Or have I just had the supreme bad luck to run into the few who still think like Flynn?)
    There are several problems with LE right now. One~screw ups get promoted, good officers don't want to work with them, they are either fired or promoted. Two~police depts are run by politicians, they only care when it affects their bottom line. Three~there are bungholes in every profession, unions and civil service regulations makes it hard to get rid of them. Four~Being a bunghole is part of the job, some people cannot put it in prospective, and do it appropriately at the correct moment in time. Five~militarization of the police by the Fed Gov since 9/11, it reinforces the US against them theme that gov is encouraging.

    When I became a police officer there was a lot of work being done to soften the police image. The FBI under the direction of Pres Carter was actually seeking out to punish police aggressively for almost any type of civil rights violation. Completely opposite from today. The youth of today has changed, some cannot think for themselves, and when they become police officers common sense goes completely out the window. Add to that they know little of the constitution or understand it's intended meaning.

    Jimmy Carter was a lousy president, BUT we need someone like him to redirect the role of the LE in this country so that it again serves the people and the constitution. I am amazed at the people who voted for Obama are the same people that are typically abused by the police, and they do not call him to task for it.
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