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Thread: Weird Experience

  1. #1
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    Weird Experience

    I have had no trouble with LEOs or citizens until the other day. I was at the grocery store and a guy asked if I was a cop. I told him that I was not, and he went on about how I should not be carrying because "anyone can call the police and they will charge me with inducing panic". I calmly tried to explain and he started to become argumentative towards me saying that I am wrong.... He explained that he just took his ccw class and his instructor told him this and that. He tried to intimidate me, by telling me his age. I am young and he thought I was ignorant. He also told me I should just conceal. It was odd, I tried my best to be polite, but he pushed me and I just walked away. It was weird and slightly angering at the fact that he called me out and tried to make me feel like an idiot in a crowded store... Sorry ranting.

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    Walking away was good.

    The other guy pushing an armed man that he thought was rash enough to break gun laws was stupid.

    Tip: Never argue with anyone regarding OC. Explain it once. If they continue to argue the point, walk away before they can get stupid and push you.

    Always remember that for every person with whom you interact, probably dozens merely observe your behavior. It is they whom you are trying to reach. One single explanation followed by rationally avoiding confrontation will go a long way to winning most of them over.

    In the real world, it is most effective to make your point and move on, not to "win" discussions with pig-headed people. Let them be pig-headed. You ain't changing that. Win over the bystanders.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wel,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Walking away was good.

    The other guy pushing an armed man that he thought was rash enough to break gun laws was stupid.

    Tip: Never argue with anyone regarding OC. Explain it once. If they continue to argue the point, walk away before they can get stupid and push you.

    Always remember that for every person with whom you interact, probably dozens merely observe your behavior. It is they whom you are trying to reach. One single explanation followed by rationally avoiding confrontation will go a long way to winning most of them over.

    In the real world, it is most effective to make your point and move on, not to "win" discussions with pig-headed people. Let them be pig-headed. You ain't changing that. Win over the bystanders.
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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Don't try to educate someone who believes they are educated. Walk away.

    This happened in Cincinnati; where?

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    WHO was your instructor??

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    "anyone can call the police and they will charge me with inducing panic"
    A suggestion for should-have-said:
    "Yes, sir, anyone can abuse the 911 system and make a false police report.
    It's a really bad idea, because those are both crimes.
    And if you look around, the only one here getting upset & being disorderly is you.
    Goodbye."
    he started to become argumentative towards me ... He tried to intimidate me... he pushed me
    Wow. Call police about the assault. Get the store security video.
    If he's nuts enough to antagonize & assault someone he knows is able to defend himself, I'd be concerned for my safety. He might decide to wait in the parking lot, where there are fewer witnesses & fewer cameras, and come back for round 2.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-02-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62
    WHO was your instructor??
    Not the OPs instructor, but that of the person harassing him.

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    I know of a CC instructor who routinely dispenses falsehoods about the law. He is also a retired police officer.

    As I tell all of my customers while I hand them a copy of the ORC, "Don't take anyone's word for what the law says. Not even mine. Read it for yourself."

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    [QUOTE=MKEgal;1903709]
    And if you look around, the only one here getting upset & being disorderly is you.

    I did get upset, but I was far from disorderly, I ended up just walking away from the situation. If I did act inappropriately then I apologize. If people want to believe in lies and half-truths that is their prerogative. I just don't feel someone should approach me in a hostile manner, concerning something that is perfectly legal. It was also my first time dealing with such a situation and I may have acted "wrongly" but I kept my cool and just ended up walking away. I did nothing illegal and that is what matters. I was antagonized and pushed, maybe I didn't do everything perfectly, but nothing happened other than a little argument.

    @ color of law, this happened in Fairfield.
    Last edited by Timj91; 02-26-2013 at 02:21 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Timj91;1904105]
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    And if you look around, the only one here getting upset & being disorderly is you.

    I did get upset, but I was far from disorderly, I ended up just walking away from the situation. If I did act inappropriately then I apologize. If people want to believe in lies and half-truths that is their prerogative. I just don't feel someone should approach me in a hostile manner, concerning something that is perfectly legal. It was also my first time dealing with such a situation and I may have acted "wrongly" but I kept my cool and just ended up walking away. I did nothing illegal and that is what matters. I was antagonized and pushed, maybe I didn't do everything perfectly, but nothing happened other than a little argument.

    @ color of law, this happened in Fairfield.
    No No No.

    She was putting herself in your shoes. If she were you she would have said to the man bothering you/her.

    The only one here getting upset and being disorderly is you. .... HIM .. got it? One of those what I should have said was ....
    "Public opinion and votes have nothing to do with this. The challenge of the Court is not what they're going to do with votes. The challenge-- of the Court is are they going to protect people's rights." - Al Sharpton


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    [QUOTE=sharkey;1904122]
    Quote Originally Posted by Timj91 View Post

    No No No.

    She was putting herself in your shoes. If she were you she would have said to the man bothering you/her.

    The only one here getting upset and being disorderly is you. .... HIM .. got it? One of those what I should have said was ....
    My apologies....I did not mean to attack. I was upset though, it has just been bothering me. Thanks for the clarification....and sorry for being grumpy.


    @MKEgal sorry for misreading your post.
    Last edited by Timj91; 02-26-2013 at 04:00 AM.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    If the guy ACTUALLY pushed you, that is assault and is a crime in Ohio.

    Go to the store and ask if they have security footage of the event.

    You don't need to press charges, but it would be good to have evidence should you ever run into this guy again.
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    I wouldn't press charges either. That won't help.

    But, if I could show the guy the video, point out that I could press charges, and am choosing not to do so, it would go a long way to showing how our take on OC is reasonable and his is unreasonable.

    We should strive to take the high road--as the OP did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    If the guy ACTUALLY pushed you, that is assault and is a crime in Ohio.
    Not really. In Ohio, Assault requires that you "cause or attempt to cause physical harm." Yes, a push can cause physical harm, but usually not. Reporting it as an Assault may just make you look like a wuss.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Timj91] he went on about how I should not be carrying because "anyone can call the police and they will charge me with inducing panic".[quote]
    You have a phone, Scooter? No, here's mine, go ahead and call.

    2917.31 Inducing panic
    (A) No person shall cause the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm, by doing any of the following:

    (1) Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;
    (2) Threatening to commit any offense of violence;
    (3) Committing any offense, with reckless disregard of the likelihood that its commission will cause serious public inconvenience or alarm.

    Barring the act of performing any of the three acts enumerated, you are not "inducing a panic" by performing a legal act.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 02-28-2013 at 01:27 PM.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werz
    Not really. In Ohio, Assault requires that you "cause or attempt to cause physical harm." Yes, a push can cause physical harm, but usually not. Reporting it as an Assault may just make you look like a wuss.
    Huh?

    Who would think you are a wuss and why would that person's opinion of us matter?

    Are you encouraging a double standard?

    I would submit that cops are not wusses. Would they react to anyone who lightly pushes them in an aggressive manner? Of course not. They wouldn't want to be thought of as a wuss! Right?

    Any judge worth their salt would throw out that assault case and call the cop a wuss. Right?


    Why would anyone you do not know push you if they did not mean you harm? It's assault. Document it even if you don't press charges.
    Last edited by MyWifeSaidYes; 02-28-2013 at 01:27 PM.
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  17. #17
    Regular Member mtbinva's Avatar
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    Weird Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Werz View Post
    Not really. In Ohio, Assault requires that you "cause or attempt to cause physical harm." Yes, a push can cause physical harm, but usually not. Reporting it as an Assault may just make you look like a wuss.
    Assault is the reasonable fear or expectation of physical bodily harm. Battery is the actual physical portion of the assault or the ensuing portion of the assault.

    Reporting that does NOT make the OP a wuss. Basically it's the game of who got to make the call first. Had the other party made the call, all of a sudden, the tables are turned, the BG is now the victim and the victim is now BG.

    Best quick cite I could find with the iPhone:

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...lt+and+Battery
    Last edited by mtbinva; 02-28-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werz View Post
    Not really. In Ohio, Assault requires that you "cause or attempt to cause physical harm." Yes, a push can cause physical harm, but usually not. Reporting it as an Assault may just make you look like a wuss.
    If you are correct about the wording of the law, and based upon your credentials, I assume that you are, then the question would be, "Was the push hard enough to cause a reasonable person to believe that it must have been an attempt to cause physical harm?" For example, if the push was hard enough that the pushee almost falls, but manages to catch himself in time, the pusher can be thought of us having attempted to cause physical harm.

    Personally, unless there was zero doubt in my mind that the other man was assaulting me, I'd walk away and not call the police. It is best that those observing think that the hoplophobe is an irrational jerk and that the armed citizen is a reasonable, nice guy. If the other person truly injures me or there is no question that he was trying to hurt me, I'd walk away and call 911. Someone illegally trying to hurt a lawful carrier is a bullet itching to fly. To forestall that, I would appreciate the assistance of LEOs. I prefer not to escalate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Not the OPs instructor, but that of the person harassing him.
    <Slaps forehead>

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    Huh?

    Who would think you are a wuss and why would that person's opinion of us matter?

    Are you encouraging a double standard?

    I would submit that cops are not wusses. Would they react to anyone who lightly pushes them in an aggressive manner? Of course not. They wouldn't want to be thought of as a wuss! Right?

    Any judge worth their salt would throw out that assault case and call the cop a wuss. Right?


    Why would anyone you do not know push you if they did not mean you harm? It's assault. Document it even if you don't press charges.
    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbinva View Post
    Assault is the reasonable fear or expectation of physical bodily harm. Battery is the actual physical portion of the assault or the ensuing portion of the assault.
    Quoting from a legal dictionary is not quite as good as quoting from the law.

    Ohio Forum = Ohio Law

    No person shall knowingly cause or attempt to cause physical harm to another or to another’s unborn. R.C. 2903.13(A), Assault
    No person shall knowingly cause another to believe that the offender will cause physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person’s unborn, or a member of the other person’s immediate family. R.C. 2903.22(A), Menacing

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Personally, unless there was zero doubt in my mind that the other man was assaulting me, I'd walk away and not call the police. It is best that those observing think that the hoplophobe is an irrational jerk and that the armed citizen is a reasonable, nice guy. If the other person truly injures me or there is no question that he was trying to hurt me, I'd walk away and call 911. Someone illegally trying to hurt a lawful carrier is a bullet itching to fly. To forestall that, I would appreciate the assistance of LEOs. I prefer not to escalate.
    Actually, that would pretty much be my strategy. A large portion of police encounters arise from ninnies who overreact to seeing an openly carried firearm and call the police like it's some sort of armed invasion. The last thing we need is to start acting like them.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Tried to re-word my earlier post to be more clear.
    Dang lack of emotion & inflection in these infernal machines...

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