Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: hb 1908. ?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188

    hb 1908. ?

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2013&bill=1908

    Any one else read this? It appears to remove the (while picking up or dropping off) provision for cpl holders. We could actually carry on school grounds.
    Last edited by SeattleWingsfan; 02-24-2013 at 01:23 PM.
    Small Business Owner---> Forward Motion Performance. Auto Services, 2A supporter, your gun is welcome and gets you a discount!
    Gun Rights Advocate---> I'll stand up for your rights, even if you don't think it's important.

  2. #2
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763

    Something else I like

    It eliminates the prohibition on students who are lawfully storing an unloaded firearm in their vehicle in the school parking lot.

    This would cause me grief, if I was heading hiking or to the range after school I'd have to park on the street instead of the school lot.
    (and ironically, the street parking was actually CLOSER to the school building then the student parking lot, but hey, what I wouldn't do for the children right? )
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    I don't see where you would have an issue. What lines are you refering to? You could conceal and not leave it in the car at all.
    Small Business Owner---> Forward Motion Performance. Auto Services, 2A supporter, your gun is welcome and gets you a discount!
    Gun Rights Advocate---> I'll stand up for your rights, even if you don't think it's important.

  4. #4
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastside, Washington, USA
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Wrong in your assessment that we can carry on school grounds! It actually takes away from having your personal protection firearm loaded while on the school grounds.
    This does however put wording in place for supporting schools to have armed teachers, staff or citizens that is apart of their security program, which the RCW already provides with out all the added wording.

    It eliminates the exception for those with a CPL to drop off and pick up students and places more restrictions at the schools and events.

    .
    That is not how I read it:

    para 3(e) expands the CPL holders exceptions to the law, by deleting the restriction of it being only during dropping/picking up.

    para 6 deletes the restriction from entering buildings.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

  5. #5
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, United States
    Posts
    504
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    That is not how I read it:

    para 3(e) expands the CPL holders exceptions to the law, by deleting the restriction of it being only during dropping/picking up.

    para 6 deletes the restriction from entering buildings.

    Lol,i was just typing this up with text from the bill and my tablet freaked out and deleted everything. I reloaded the page and you beat me to it.

    To me, it seems like this will allow carriers with CPLs to carry at and in the school because of those 2 fixes. Am I wrong?
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  6. #6
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Graham, , USA
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    That is not how I read it:

    para 3(e) expands the CPL holders exceptions to the law, by deleting the restriction of it being only during dropping/picking up.

    para 6 deletes the restriction from entering buildings.
    That's the way I read it too. Also looks to me that if you or your employer has a contract with that school, that you can carry while engaged in that contract, with separation between providing security or being LE.

    , or any person in possession of a firearm
    pursuant to a contract entered into between the school and the person
    or the person's employer

  7. #7
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bremerton, Washington
    Posts
    593
    text I am finding at http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2...Bills/1908.htm

    would allow CPL holder to carry on school grounds at any time and does not prohibit entry into school buildings. It makes it a privilege, not a right, but it is a step in the correct direction.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a ((pistol)) firearm who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060

    18 USC 922 section about licensed carriers

    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    Last edited by Vitaeus; 02-24-2013 at 05:27 PM. Reason: aded text lifted from link

  8. #8
    Regular Member Sparky508's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Graham, , USA
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    text I am finding at http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2...Bills/1908.htm

    would allow CPL holder to carry on school grounds at any time and does not prohibit entry into school buildings. It makes it a privilege, not a right, but it is a step in the correct direction.

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a ((pistol)) firearm who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060

    18 USC 922 section about licensed carriers

    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    Yea but this is the wrestling match over CPLs being necessary at all, vs the right to carry without one. Of course the exceptions are still there.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    From our friend Elizabeth Scott of the 39th LD:

    "I have submitted a bill, House Bill 1908, which will allow licensed concealed carry on school grounds, modeled after the federal Gun Free School Zones Act signed by President Bill Clinton in 1990. (His bill allowed it.) You can read the bill at this link and leave a comment. Please call 1-800-562-6000 on Friday Feb 15th to ask your representatives to cosponsor HB 1908 by 2 pm. The principal at Sandy Hook threw herself at the shooter because she had no weapon. That day could've ended differently.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2013&bill=1908

    HB 1908 - 2013-14
    apps.leg.wa.gov
    Small Business Owner---> Forward Motion Performance. Auto Services, 2A supporter, your gun is welcome and gets you a discount!
    Gun Rights Advocate---> I'll stand up for your rights, even if you don't think it's important.

  10. #10
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    357

    Re: hb 1908. ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    That is not how I read it:

    para 3(e) expands the CPL holders exceptions to the law, by deleting the restriction of it being only during dropping/picking up.

    para 6 deletes the restriction from entering buildings.
    Big Dave likes to leave stuff out. This bill is a step in the right direction and allows those with a cpl to carry into school property even if they are not picking up or dropping off students.
    Too lazy to do a blog! Follow me on Twitter instead! @6ShotScott

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    That part. 3. Subsection 1 of this section.... Is in section 2. Infact the only subsection 1 is in section 2. Seems pretty clear.
    Last edited by SeattleWingsfan; 02-24-2013 at 08:52 PM.
    Small Business Owner---> Forward Motion Performance. Auto Services, 2A supporter, your gun is welcome and gets you a discount!
    Gun Rights Advocate---> I'll stand up for your rights, even if you don't think it's important.

  12. #12
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Central South Sound
    Posts
    1,025

    It doesn't Matter anymore

    This bill failed to exit the committee by the Feb. 22 deadline and is dead for the current legislative session.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington, United States
    Posts
    188
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Are you really that naive? I guess so.
    You seem to be the only one that doesn't understand it. I've helped write a few bills over the years. It reads easier than most that get introduced. But as he said it's too late. Maybe next year.
    Small Business Owner---> Forward Motion Performance. Auto Services, 2A supporter, your gun is welcome and gets you a discount!
    Gun Rights Advocate---> I'll stand up for your rights, even if you don't think it's important.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,667
    I also read the bill as exempting all CPL holders. It removes the stipulation of while picking up or dropping off a student and allows licensed carry regardless of the reason you are on/in school grounds.
    Live Free or Die!

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    This bill failed to exit the committee by the Feb. 22 deadline and is dead for the current legislative session.
    Yep.
    Live Free or Die!

  16. #16
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    1,329

    hb 1908. ?

    Dave didn't you say that the parts bolded in your first quoting of the bill were to be stricken?
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA, ,
    Posts
    435
    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Wrong in your assessment that we can carry on school grounds! It actually takes away from having your personal protection firearm loaded while on the school grounds.
    This does however put wording in place for supporting schools to have armed teachers, staff or citizens that is apart of their security program, which the RCW already provides with out all the added wording.

    It eliminates the exception for those with a CPL to drop off and pick up students and places more restrictions at the schools and events.

    Grey Letter is bieng deleted from RCW
    Bold for emphasis


    RCW 9.41.280 and 2009 c 453 s 1 are each amended to read
    11 as follows:
    12 (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on,
    13 public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-
    14 provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used
    15 exclusively by public or private schools:
    16 (a) Any firearm;


    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
    p. 3 HB 1908

    1 (a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on
    2 the property of the academy;
    3 (b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school
    4 district security activities, or any person in possession of a firearm
    5 pursuant to a contract entered into between the school and the person
    6 or the person's employer.


    (c) Any person ((who is involved in a convention, showing,
    13 demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school
    14 authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are
    15 handled or displayed))
    using a firearm in accordance with a program
    16 approved by the school;


    (f) Any person in possession of a firearm that is unloaded while
    24 traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public
    25 or private lands open to hunting, if entry on school premises is
    26 authorized by school authorities;


    (g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in
    28 possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an
    29 attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended
    30 vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school((;
    31 (g)))
    , or any ((nonstudent at least eighteen years of age)) person
    32 who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a
    33 vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;
    or
    34 (h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local
    35 government agency.
    David,
    I don't see where you included parts (d) and (e) above under 3:


    1. (d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or
    2. 18 air gun competition approved by the school or school district;
    3. 19 (e) Any person in possession of a ((pistol)) firearm who has been
    4. 20 issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing
    5. 21 requirement by RCW 9.41.060((, while picking up or dropping off a22 student));






    It is pretty obvious that the new subsection 1 does not have subparts a/b/c/d etc etc.....
    So the new section references need to be brought up to date, but the intent is pretty clear. It expands our ability to carry on school grounds with a CPL.
    It is unfortunate that it is dead this year.......
    Last edited by OlGutshotWilly; 02-24-2013 at 10:21 PM.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

  18. #18
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    1,329

    hb 1908. ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    No.
    It was confusing because your instructions there are bold as of it were supposed to represent the grey lettering. Thanks for clearing that up.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,667
    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on,
    public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-
    provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used
    exclusively by public or private schools:
    (a) Any firearm;

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a ((pistol)) firearm who has been
    issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing
    requirement by RCW 9.41.060((, while picking up or dropping off a
    student
    ));
    Eliminates the requirement that you must be picking up or dropping off a student to be exempt and makes ALL CPL holders exempt. (red is strike through)

    In Sec. 2 there are 7...now 6 sub sections all with a parenthesis, note in (3) it refers to (1) and not Sec. 1

    However, the language should be cleaned up to refer to it as a subsection.
    Last edited by gogodawgs; 02-24-2013 at 11:10 PM.
    Live Free or Die!

  20. #20
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yakima, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,463
    I stand corrected, it is the subsection (1) of Section(2), my apologies and will remove my earlier post to avoid someone misinterpreting.
    Last edited by BigDave; 02-24-2013 at 11:14 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  21. #21
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bothell, WA
    Posts
    565
    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I also read the bill as exempting all CPL holders. It removes the stipulation of while picking up or dropping off a student and allows licensed carry regardless of the reason you are on/in school grounds.
    That's how I read it. Correctly parsed, the proposed language would be interpreted as:

    Sec. 2
    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:
    (a) Any firearm;

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
    (e) Any person in possession of a firearm who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060.

    Hopefully, the bill will be reintroduced in advance of or at the start of the next legislative session.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •