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Thread: Gun control supporters to form lobbying coalition

  1. #1
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Gun control supporters to form lobbying coalition

    OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Gun control advocates in Washington state are forming a coalition to lobby state lawmakers, hoping to help usher passage of a plan to expand background checks.

    Democratic consultant Christian Sinderman said Tuesday the new group will focus this year on supporting lawmakers who take difficult votes on the issue and organize public efforts to keep pressure on the Legislature.

    "We're hearing messages from legislators who want to be supportive that they're nervous about their electorate and how this issue is perceived," Sinderman said. The Washington Alliance for Gun Responsibility will officially launch its work next week.

    Gun buyers currently have to undergo a background check when they purchase a weapon from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Under a new bill, background checks would be extended to private gun sales, with supporters saying criminals can use that type of sale to bypass oversight.

    The National Rifle Association has testified against the idea and has been pressuring lawmakers to reject the plan. The group sent out mailings recently targeting Republican Rep. Mike Hope, a Seattle police officer who has worked to develop the background checks bill.

    A version of the background checks proposal has passed out of a House committee. It faces probably the biggest test in the state Senate, where a committee that would handle the bill is led by firearm-friendly lawmakers who recently rejected some other gun proposals.

    Sinderman said the group is bringing on a lobbyist and a campaign manager. He said there's no discussion right now about pursuing a ballot measure.

    Sinderman didn't have numbers of how much has been committed to the effort so far.



    Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2013/f...#ixzz2M322G2yf
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Gun control advocates in Washington state are forming a coalition to lobby state lawmakers, hoping to help usher passage of a plan to expand background checks.

    Democratic consultant Christian Sinderman said Tuesday the new group will focus this year on supporting lawmakers who take difficult votes on the issue and organize public efforts to keep pressure on the Legislature.

    "We're hearing messages from legislators who want to be supportive that they're nervous about their electorate and how this issue is perceived," Sinderman said. The Washington Alliance for Gun Responsibility will officially launch its work next week.

    Gun buyers currently have to undergo a background check when they purchase a weapon from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Under a new bill, background checks would be extended to private gun sales, with supporters saying criminals can use that type of sale to bypass oversight.

    The National Rifle Association has testified against the idea and has been pressuring lawmakers to reject the plan. The group sent out mailings recently targeting Republican Rep. Mike Hope, a Seattle police officer who has worked to develop the background checks bill.

    A version of the background checks proposal has passed out of a House committee. It faces probably the biggest test in the state Senate, where a committee that would handle the bill is led by firearm-friendly lawmakers who recently rejected some other gun proposals.

    Sinderman said the group is bringing on a lobbyist and a campaign manager. He said there's no discussion right now about pursuing a ballot measure.

    Sinderman didn't have numbers of how much has been committed to the effort so far.



    Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2013/f...#ixzz2M322G2yf
    We should notify our lobbyist immediately to plan counter measures!....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    We should notify our lobbyist immediately to plan counter measures!....
    You mean our suggestion a couple of years back to form a pro gun group? The one that many though was not needed, then they all sit around and do nothing but bang on a keyboard? The group we suggested that could of set the ground work for working to actually repeal laws?

    Oh nevermind....
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    You mean our suggestion a couple of years back to form a pro gun group? The one that many though was not needed, then they all sit around and do nothing but bang on a keyboard? The group we suggested that could of set the ground work for working to actually repeal laws?

    Oh nevermind....

    That could never have worked. We all know it's easier to battle an enemy that's well organized while being unorganized...
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    You mean our suggestion a couple of years back to form a pro gun group? The one that many though was not needed, then they all sit around and do nothing but bang on a keyboard? The group we suggested that could of set the ground work for working to actually repeal laws?

    Oh nevermind....
    Yeah the one you wanted to create to have a job.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Yeah the one you wanted to create to have a job.
    Here we go...again....let's try to p1ss in each others Cheerio's and all the while, we never gain any momentum, focus, voice, impact, ability to affect (real) change....

    Nic has a job....move on....to the question or just keep banging away on the keyboard. You have done a good job on several issues and education of the local politic where your at....battles won!

    IMHO, the issues are elevated now, and it's the war we need to address not just the skirmishes....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    It really wouldn't matter to me, of course someone who takes the time to found an organization and all the work that goes with it gets the job of leading it....

    Frankly, despite my personal differences and disputes with Nick in the past, I think he'd be the best person at least among these forums to lead such a group. becuase if not someone like him, then eventually people will be crawling out of the woodwork claiming to represent Washington gun owners and calling themselves a "non-profit militia".......oh wait.....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    It really wouldn't matter to me, of course someone who takes the time to found an organization and all the work that goes with it gets the job of leading it....

    Frankly, despite my personal differences and disputes with Nick in the past, I think he'd be the best person at least among these forums to lead such a group. becuase if not someone like him, then eventually people will be crawling out of the woodwork claiming to represent Washington gun owners and calling themselves a "non-profit militia".......oh wait.....
    It doesn't even have to be Nic...just a person with his level of knowledge, experience, grounding in the issues and willing to work for slave wages....

    I personally run a non-profit as paid staff...it's a full time gig. I also have worked with other NP's in the same industry segment on a national basis for organization, strategic planning, etc.

    Having worked with over 20 of them, I know one thing that is common to all organizations....Volunteer organizations can be effective, but are limited to the availability of resources and board members/sub-committee's that are just a way to organize resources and focus effort.

    If you have the financial resources for staff, lobbyists, etc. you can leverage your impact...and raise the perception of viability of the organization....

    The point is "being organized" will have more effect than not....that's all.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Yeah the one you wanted to create to have a job.
    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Here we go...again....let's try to p1ss in each others Cheerio's and all the while, we never gain any momentum, focus, voice, impact, ability to affect (real) change....
    Nic has a job....move on....to the question or just keep banging away on the keyboard. You have done a good job on several issues and education of the local politic where your at....battles won!
    IMHO, the issues are elevated now, and it's the war we need to address not just the skirmishes....
    I was stating a fact is all not the issue of employment, maybe it could have been worded differently but it still remains it appeared to be the main drive behind creating such a lobbying position and who was going to provide supporting funds to do so, asked yourself how much money would it take to do such an endeavor? How many here are willing to put up the funds to make it happen? $50, $100, $500, $1,000 in a month, quarter, year split among how many?
    Truly it is a business and how many businesses start up without funding in place?
    So Nick if you really want to do this then you will find a way and it is not the fault of a handful of people on this forum.

    This forum can hardly agree on simple matters let alone more complex issues and putting forth the funds to achieve such a lobbying effort.

    Granted it takes sometime for Organization as NRA or SAF to catch on as issues with State Preemption.
    Gene Beasley started a list 4 or 5 years ago on cities and counties in violation of preemption. He and several others moved ahead in addressing the issues on their own. The NRA and SAF was contacted by me about this very issue and was basically ignored. We went it alone and was successful in many jurisdictions.
    Point being is that each organization has their own agenda and priorities, they do come around in time.
    When citizens keep contacting them and placing issues in front of them, added with funding to move ahead we move ahead even though some do not like the pace.
    If we keep adding another organization and then another, what are we doing? In essence we divide and weaken.
    Last edited by BigDave; 02-27-2013 at 04:10 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  10. #10
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    I was stating a fact is all not the issue of employment, maybe it could have been worded differently but it still remains it appeared to be the main drive behind creating such a lobbying position and who was going to provide supporting funds to do so, asked yourself how much money would it take to do such an endeavor? How many here are willing to put up the funds to make it happen? $50, $100, $500, $1,000 in a month, quarter, year split among how many?
    Truly it is a business and how many businesses start up without funding in place?
    So Nick if you really want to do this then you will find a way and it is not the fault of a handful of people on this forum.

    This forum can hardly agree on simple matters let alone more complex issues and putting forth the funds to achieve such a lobbying effort.

    Granted it takes sometime for Organization as NRA or SAF to catch on as issues with State Preemption.
    Gene Beasley started a list 4 or 5 years ago on cities and counties in violation of preemption. He and several others moved ahead in addressing the issues on their own. The NRA and SAF was contacted by me about this very issue and was basically ignored. We went it alone and was successful in many jurisdictions.


    Point being is that each organization has their own agenda and priorities, they do come around in time.
    When citizens keep contacting them and placing issues in front of them, added with funding to move ahead we move ahead even though some do not like the pace.
    If we keep adding another organization and then another, what are we doing? In essence we divide and weaken.
    I agree, it absolutely needs to be driven from a working business model. Organizations often start with common interests (social like the Mountaineers) or common interest fights (legal challenges like SAF)....This group is pretty effective at identifying local issues like park regulations and someone picks up the torch. NRA and largely SAF (claims 650,000 members) need to focus on a national agenda and legal defense that sets the plate for state issues. My opinion is that n the gap there exists room for a state level organization in WA to zero in on state level issues and intiatives to push back on the state level Anti's that are marshalling resources against us in the void.

    One of the challenges that I have seen in resistance to establishing and working on strategic planning with non-profits is the common perception that as a "non-profit" they are not supposed/allowed to make money (someone looking for a job). This is not true...it just means that the revenue generated in a non profit can't be distributed to it's elected board members or others. Well run organizations develop funding models that create sustainability for unknown events (Red Cross has millions in reserve) and War Chests to make a defense when needed.

    For an organization to have a shot and be effective, it has to have a "need to fullfill" and once that is agreed two elements drive strategic planning...first is the ability to survive, and during the same time to be able to be working toward a cash flow model that gives them sustainability.

    Some do it with gov't grant funding, others with a sugar daddy,others with membership and programs, but in the end if you don't have a base of financial support that you can draw on or develop through support, intiative or whatever, you may "survive" for a while but when the "fighting issues" dissolve, you need to have a common thread that exists to keep people involved.

    As I read the discourse in these various threads, there seems to be a greater level of interest in these higher issues that affect all of us and not just OC'r, CC'rs and others that have no real representation or group or.....something, to respond in any organized fashion....and so we pound the keyboards in our inability to contribute, effect change or be "heard" by anyone who can do something.....IMHO, we got lucky in this legislative session so far with some version of 12 intiatives looking for traction....but it could have easily gone the other way without two token Dem's switching allegiance.....not my idea of participating in the process.

    It's not really rocket science, but in our interest area of 2A defense, unless someones pants are on fire, people aren't really fired up.....that is where I mostly see the difference in commitment in a volunteer organization vs a staff model that requires someone to show up everyday, get something done and report on progress on agreed issues/agenda to a board....who is resopnsible to the "members"....a "hired gun" if you will.

    I think that some kind of organization that is focused on WA state level issues would be a good idea and I have the first $100 or $250 to get my annual membership paid....but I also think the general OC issues discussed (and rightly so), on this forum are really too narrow a focus to have a sustainable organization around it to carry the weight of what we need to do in Olympia....that said, due to the pipe laid by others in the past over the years, we enjoy the ability to OC pretty widely. Our current discussions and debates on the forum are less OC and much more about the general 2A issues and curent legislation, but its the nature of the season.

    What I mostly know is that while the Anti's are forming up, developing legislative strategic intiatives, finding funding, creating collaborative relationships with other centers of power (as large or small as they may be), we as a group of gun owners continue to be a fiercely individual independent group of folks that can't seem to get it together until some one shows up to inspect your safe or set your pants on fire......aside of course of the monthly protest rally's at the fountain and speakers telling us to jungle up and get our ham radio's set up and our ammunition and food supplies in place.
    Last edited by jt59; 02-27-2013 at 05:37 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    I do wish WE had a Washington oganization to represent OUR concerns here!
    I DO think that Gogodawgs...Nick... would represent OUR intrests very well!
    I would hope that we could avoid the problems that,,,,
    MichiganOpen carry has with... everybodythere, and MRCGO..
    California has between calgun.net... and calguns.foundation...

    OTOH,,, WisconsinCarryInc,, Is very strong and focused,
    they were Johny on the spot, 2 yrs ago within an hour of the the Culvers 5 jam up in Madistan.
    and there is NO bickering in the forum,, I hold that ORG in high reguard!

    I can tell you all,
    I would be pleased to make a donation/membersip to a group to help protect my rights/free citizenship in my sovern state!

    In the overall out look of things,,, that may be cheaper than.... AMMO!!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    I do wish WE had a Washington oganization to represent OUR concerns here!
    I DO think that Gogodawgs...Nick... would represent OUR intrests very well!
    I would hope that we could avoid the problems that,,,,
    MichiganOpen carry has with... everybodythere, and MRCGO..
    California has between calgun.net... and calguns.foundation...

    OTOH,,, WisconsinCarryInc,, Is very strong and focused,
    they were Johny on the spot, 2 yrs ago within an hour of the the Culvers 5 jam up in Madistan.
    and there is NO bickering in the forum,, I hold that ORG in high reguard!

    I can tell you all,
    I would be pleased to make a donation/membersip to a group to help protect my rights/free citizenship in my sovern state!

    In the overall out look of things,,, that may be cheaper than.... AMMO!!!
    Well...........um,,,,,,,,,............that makes two............or maybe three of us that sees' some value in the idea.............

    ........................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know?.............................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,Ammo is only expensive if you can find it.
    Last edited by jt59; 02-28-2013 at 02:00 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    The thing is,,, I have all of the AMMO I NEED!!!!!!
    But WE still need a Leader!!

    I wish we could find one.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    The thing is,,, I have all of the AMMO I NEED!!!!!!
    But WE still need a Leader!!

    I wish we could find one.
    When the time is right and the need is great....one will emerge.....in 12 days, we will be out of the legislative swamp for a while.
    Last edited by jt59; 02-28-2013 at 05:44 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I have been giving this some though recently. Exploring different models. (PAC, non-profits)

    One that may be feasible is forming a PAC, thus being able to lobby the legislature.

    And doing so focusing on firearms rights and reaching out to multiple Tea Party, Libertarian, Conservative grass root groups.

    What I believe it would take to focus on it full time is the support of between 500 and 1000 people at around $10 to $20 a month(reoccurring fee). (Kind of like Netflix)

    That would support putting a person on the ground in Olympia from Jan-Apr everyday and the remainder of the year working across the state in cities and counties.

    It's quite an endeavor that's for sure, but if there is enough support it would mean having a gun rights activist focused solely on Washington State issues 100% of the time. While SAF, the NRA and WAC are great, I do not see any of the 3 of them focused 100% of the time on WA issues and in the weeds working for new legislation to undue some of the mess that exists now.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I have been giving this some though recently. Exploring different models. (PAC, non-profits)

    One that may be feasible is forming a PAC, thus being able to lobby the legislature.

    And doing so focusing on firearms rights and reaching out to multiple Tea Party, Libertarian, Conservative grass root groups.

    What I believe it would take to focus on it full time is the support of between 500 and 1000 people at around $10 to $20 a month(reoccurring fee). (Kind of like Netflix)

    That would support putting a person on the ground in Olympia from Jan-Apr everyday and the remainder of the year working across the state in cities and counties.

    It's quite an endeavor that's for sure, but if there is enough support it would mean having a gun rights activist focused solely on Washington State issues 100% of the time. While SAF, the NRA and WAC are great, I do not see any of the 3 of them focused 100% of the time on WA issues and in the weeds working for new legislation to undue some of the mess that exists now.
    I agree, I think this formula has some merit...in the off season for the legislature, seeking out and at tacking local issues could be networked in and maintain an awarness with multiple organizations that have different focus but common agenda's.

    The financial numbers could be augmented with corporate sponsorships that are either sustainable or specific to focus activities. But support from Gun Clubs, Firearm Retailers and Manufacturer's in WA. could be included in the matrix. A fully funded lobbyist on a year round basis is going to cost 75-100 G...
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    And then comes the rub, finding the numbers it would take to support someone doing this year around along with someone with actual experience and expertise to fill those shoes.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    And then comes the rub, finding the numbers it would take to support someone doing this year around along with someone with actual experience and expertise to fill those shoes.
    Exactly!

    Although I just completed an auction fund raiser for another good cause...we raised $32,000 in 57 minutes in an auction...one of the items donated was a Tekka 30-06...it went for $150 over retail...

    Where there is a will, there is a way....
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    The thing is,,, I have all of the AMMO I NEED!!!!!!
    But WE still need a Leader!!

    I wish we could find one.
    Leaders need followers.

    Lead the way and others will join your effort as free men with no obligation.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I have been giving this some though recently. Exploring different models. (PAC, non-profits)

    One that may be feasible is forming a PAC, thus being able to lobby the legislature.

    And doing so focusing on firearms rights and reaching out to multiple Tea Party, Libertarian, Conservative grass root groups.

    What I believe it would take to focus on it full time is the support of between 500 and 1000 people at around $10 to $20 a month(reoccurring fee). (Kind of like Netflix)

    That would support putting a person on the ground in Olympia from Jan-Apr everyday and the remainder of the year working across the state in cities and counties.

    It's quite an endeavor that's for sure, but if there is enough support it would mean having a gun rights activist focused solely on Washington State issues 100% of the time. While SAF, the NRA and WAC are great, I do not see any of the 3 of them focused 100% of the time on WA issues and in the weeds working for new legislation to undue some of the mess that exists now.
    I've been polling personal contacts that are outside of this forum and active gun owners, shooters and concerned...every one said that for 100/250 per year.... their in.

    that's the first $1200-$3,000....

    There are nearly 400,000 CPL holders in this state now, no?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  21. #21
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    To combat the anti gunners lobby efforts, I think you have to destroy their base by open carrying more in their area. I'm talking with your family and friends going out to greenlake or Discovery park or Sand Point park. and walking around with your family or the dog and talking to people when they ask questions. I think it would do alot for our cause to see a family having a picnic at Cal Anderson Park and let those anti's get comfortable with seeing guns in their nieghborhood parks, and get to know us. I don't see open carriers getting out there in the anti's areas and pressing the flesh. I think this would do alot for changeing minds and make the anti's relize they are in gun territory and no one supports them up here.

  22. #22
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    I think we already do this. I don't think it destroys their base....and if it had any impact at all, they'd ignore it in the face of money, organization, political will and the ear of lawmakers, and an agenda. This is where decisions are made. Once in office, many politicians push their personal political agenda's and rationalize it with the "mandate" that they were elected on...even if it was 50.5%

    While many folks may be anti gun, I think most of them think about it as much as they do their personal safety which is not a lot and doesn't extend past dialing 911.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  23. #23
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanchez View Post
    To combat the anti gunners lobby efforts, I think you have to destroy their base by open carrying more in their area. ...<snip>...
    I do agree, however, to REALLY destroy the base we need to attack the commerce clause by exempting the Second Amendment from it's regulation.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jt59;1906297]I think we already do this.

    I don't understand this part of what you said. Could you please explain?

  25. #25
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jsanchez;1907202]
    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    I think we already do this.

    I don't understand this part of what you said. Could you please explain?
    Sure, ....only that we have a very vigorous OC group in WA and while we continue to work toward "normalizing" OC by doing it.... and I think we are successful at it to a degree, we do it one person, one exposure at a time. Maybe we get a question that will lead to a discussion, maybe we get noticed and there's no conversation maybe someone just calls 911, but I don't think that OC'ing in and of itself is a strategy to "destroy the base" of anti's.

    Oak Harbor was a good effort and got a lot of press, but someone watching it on their TV at home didn't necessarily get their minds changed IMHO.

    If anything, maybe just more entrenched in their belief....Oak Harbor was a slam dunk from the get go because of the state law....but it doesn't take more than the dozen or so bills that were introduced into the legislature this year, to convince me Anti's are there and they are as passionate as we are but, they are better organized, have funding and the support/ear, of key Dem's on key committee's in the legislature to get things through when the opportunity presents itself.

    We do a great job at showing up in public places, challenging Park rules and local city ordinances that are out of date, there is organization at the national level with SAF and NRA and some others, but we don't have, as a group of gun owners/enthusiasts, anyone who speaks for us at the state level to the legislature where the important issues to us here in WA live and thus, we see the spate of gun legislation in the last two months.

    We may get out of this current legislative session unscathed, but it is principally due to a conversion in the Senate by two Dem's for other issues that shifted the power structure and a little luck and support in the Dem controlled House, and the case of this last lingering HB 1588, the poison pill that was introduced, has caused infighting on it with the Sheriff's or Chiefs of Police coming out against it. If it doesn't move by the 13th, it's dead for this year....but we be automatically re-introduced in 2014 because of the legislative process on bills that have been introduced previously.

    ...... and in the next Rahm Emmanuel "Never let a good crisis go to waste" moment, they will still be there....and as these current issues dim, and we move on to the next thread, we will still be diminished in our ability to defend our State 2A issues to a few letter writing campaigns and a few public comment meetings if anyone shows up. The auto reply's from our Congress women, bear this out......they don't care what we think, we don't vote for them and they know it.

    I may have misunderstood your comment in your OP and maybe your thinking was broader than what you wrote, but it just seemed pretty simplistic...this issue needs to be defended on many, many levels....but to me, at the local level, the legislature is where the real fight is to keep, maintain or strengthen our 2A rights in WA and ensuring that we do not weaken the pre-exemption....and we have no real impact there to affect change without any lobbyist of our own who is paying attention full time, year round.
    Last edited by jt59; 03-04-2013 at 05:10 PM. Reason: syntax
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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