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Thread: In hand open carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    In hand open carry

    would carrying a holstered handgun in your hand walking down the street be illegal?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    In hand open carry

    I have been told no but in an unlocked gun case is ok


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    would carrying a holstered handgun in your hand walking down the street be illegal?
    I would say yes as it could be considered brandishing, however if you want to test it out feel free and let us know (assuming you get internet access in jail that is).
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

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  4. #4
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: In hand open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    would carrying a holstered handgun in your hand walking down the street be illegal?
    This was gone over & debated in a thread a while back that was deleted. I expect this thread will be also. While it may or may not be brandishing depending on situation, it certainly seems like a disaster waiting to happen. As we have seen in LA, some LEO's go full auto and get the "details" later...just saying...
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  5. #5
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    FreeInAZ, The question is well within the rules of this forum and I hope that people keep it civilized.

    This is my opinion, it is only mine but still IHOC of a holstered handgun like anything else, unless it has been made illegal, is legal by default. It is not brandishing either. There is no case law, so the courts will hopefully revert to the dictionary, look it up there and see if it fits. I don't see how this would be any different than something that happened in Birmingham sometime back.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    This was gone over & debated in a thread a while back that was deleted. I expect this thread will be also. While it may or may not be brandishing depending on situation, it certainly seems like a disaster waiting to happen. As we have seen in LA, some LEO's go full auto and get the "details" later...just saying...
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    FreeInAZ, The question is well within the rules of this forum and I hope that people keep it civilized.

    This is my opinion, it is only mine but still IHOC of a holstered handgun like anything else, unless it has been made illegal, is legal by default. It is not brandishing either. There is no case law, so the courts will hopefully revert to the dictionary, look it up there and see if it fits. I don't see how this would be any different than something that happened in Birmingham sometime back.
    Raggs: What is the purpose of IHOC? It seems like a not smart thing to do. Pointing it in the wrong direction might also get you shot. I can't think a single reason why anyone would need to hold their holstered firearm in public. Shed some light on this.

  7. #7
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: In hand open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    FreeInAZ, The question is well within the rules of this forum and I hope that people keep it civilized.

    This is my opinion, it is only mine but still IHOC of a holstered handgun like anything else, unless it has been made illegal, is legal by default. It is not brandishing either. There is no case law, so the courts will hopefully revert to the dictionary, look it up there and see if it fits. I don't see how this would be any different than something that happened in Birmingham sometime back.
    There is case law
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    In hand open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    would carrying a holstered handgun in your hand walking down the street be illegal?
    I've heard a former member of this forum did something similar. He was walking down Dixie Highway while it was raining. He had a make-shift poncho out of a trash bag.

    He didn't want to cause the bag to accidentally conceal his gun, so he proceeded to walk in public while having it in his hand.

    I don't remember there being reports of him being arrested or charged with anything -- for this incident. That doesn't mean it's legal though.

    IANAL! YMMV!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    What would be the purpose of this form of IHOC? Seems rather ridiculous unless you are referring to short trips from the house to the car, or something similar... which I do often, in my driveway.
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Ok hypothetical

    I am a person who is 20 years old and break down in a bad neighborhood and wouldn't you know my cell phone is dead, Darn! I saw a store about a mile back and really have no idea what might be ahead so i decide to walk the mile back. it is cold and raining and my coat is too long and will definitely cover the pistol if I were to carry it on my belt so I decide to carry the holstered pistol in my left hand so I have protection in the bad neighborhood.

    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    What would be the purpose of this form of IHOC? Seems rather ridiculous unless you are referring to short trips from the house to the car, or something similar... which I do often, in my driveway.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Ok hypothetical

    I am a person who is 20 years old and break down in a bad neighborhood and wouldn't you know my cell phone is dead, Darn! I saw a store about a mile back and really have no idea what might be ahead so i decide to walk the mile back. it is cold and raining and my coat is too long and will definitely cover the pistol if I were to carry it on my belt so I decide to carry the holstered pistol in my left hand so I have protection in the bad neighborhood.
    Is it a revolver or automatic? Stainless or blued?

    But, seriously, your hypothetical person is going to end up throwing it in the dirt when the po-po roll up.

    Best suggestion, stay out of bad neighborhoods until he gets a CPL., especially on a dark & stormy night. Suddenly, a shot rang out! A door slammed. The maid screamed. Suddenly, a pirate ship appeared on the horizon! While millions of people were starving, the king lived in luxury. Meanwhile, on a small farm in Kansas, a boy was growing up.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Ok hypothetical

    I am a person who is 20 years old and break down in a bad neighborhood and wouldn't you know my cell phone is dead, Darn! I saw a store about a mile back and really have no idea what might be ahead so i decide to walk the mile back. it is cold and raining and my coat is too long and will definitely cover the pistol if I were to carry it on my belt so I decide to carry the holstered pistol in my left hand so I have protection in the bad neighborhood.
    As if the belt can't be taken off a person's pants and put around the coat on the outside....

    Hypothetical... folks stop asking questions intended to cause controversy.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 02-27-2013 at 05:39 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I've heard a former member of this forum did something similar. He was walking down Dixie Highway while it was raining. He had a make-shift poncho out of a trash bag.

    He didn't want to cause the bag to accidentally conceal his gun, so he proceeded to walk in public while having it in his hand.

    I don't remember there being reports of him being arrested or charged with anything -- for this incident. That doesn't mean it's legal though.

    IANAL! YMMV!
    That sounds soooo familiar. link nsfw

    http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/13691863/ihoc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    As if the belt can't be taken off a person's pants and put around the coat on the outside....

    Hypothetical... folks stop asking questions intended to cause controversy.
    Yes. Please.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any controversy, there are people who think lgoc is a bad thing as well, and they have the right, I don't think most of us would do what I have asked, I asked about the legality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    As if the belt can't be taken off a person's pants and put around the coat on the outside....

    Hypothetical... folks stop asking questions intended to cause controversy.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    I haven't seen any controversy, there are people who think lgoc is a bad thing as well, and they have the right, I don't think most of us would do what I have asked, I asked about the legality.
    No controversy? Then surely you'll ihoc passed a group of cops and let us all know how it works out. Then you can tell us if it's legal or not rather than us just opining.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    This is my opinion, it is only mine but still IHOC of a holstered handgun like anything else, unless it has been made illegal, is legal by default. It is not brandishing either.
    One thing to keep in mind, under the definition of brandishing, is that even OCing a handgun in a belt carried holster might not stand up against a brandishing charge, even given the AG opinions, if the carrier could be shown in court to be carrying only to make people see it in an obnoxious manner along the lines of the definition of brandishing, rather than for any other lawful purpose. Carrying it in hand might just make it look more like this was your intention.

    So my opinion is that I wouldn't want to be a test case for one thing because there would be no reason, and for another reason because I think it could easily lose.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    I haven't seen any controversy, there are people who think lgoc is a bad thing as well, and they have the right, I don't think most of us would do what I have asked, I asked about the legality.
    What is the point of asking about the legality of such a blatantly stupid idea that even you say most here (past forum members excluded) wouldnt do?
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

    I carry a gun because a Police Officer is too heavy.

    For Drama free gun rights discussion, see http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/

  19. #19
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: In hand open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    That sounds soooo familiar. link nsfw

    http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/13691863/ihoc
    Outstanding video Rob! I laughed so hard I cried. Thanks for making it. To the un-named subject of this short video....impulse control goes a long way. So does listening to the weather report before leaving the house...

    Wish you all the best in MI. No need for IHOC here - as it was sunny and near 70° today .
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  20. #20
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    What is the point of asking about the legality of such a blatantly stupid idea that even you say most here (past forum members excluded) wouldnt do?
    as pointed out earlier there is precedent according to DrTodd. Also I know people who would never carry a rifle in public and think it is stupid and yet people do. As to the no controversy comment I meant in this thread, all though shockingly I have gotten more opinion and emotion than actual facts.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    as pointed out earlier there is precedent according to DrTodd. Also I know people who would never carry a rifle in public and think it is stupid and yet people do. As to the no controversy comment I meant in this thread, all though shockingly I have gotten more opinion and emotion than actual facts.
    Simple question, did you start this thread seeking info because you plan to IHOC?

  22. #22
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    I cant believe this thread is still open. (facepalm)

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    Re: In hand open carry

    If more states defined legal open carry as clearly as Arizona does (in AZ, it has to be a belt holster and only a portion of the holster needs to be visible for the weapon to not be considered concealed), then this wouldn't even be an issue. Personally, I wouldn't carry a gun in my hand out in public, holstered or not. To me, that's asking for the police to bother you or for a frantic man with gun call.

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    Last edited by tattedupboy; 02-27-2013 at 09:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    I cant believe this thread is still open. (facepalm)
    That makes ALL of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    personally, i wouldn't carry a gun in my hand out in public, holstered or not. To me, that's asking for the police to shoot you
    fify

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