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Waterford

Raggs

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
From an OCer
"I dropped off a registration in Waterford today, and noticed a problem. There was a sign requiring approval of all carried firearms by the desk sgt. This is in violation of 1102, "regulate in any other manner" part of preemption. I was wondering if you could start a thread on OCDO or MOC about this. Waterford has a long record of making up the rules as they go, and this should be brought to light. Link to pic below.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/stainless1911/WaterfordPDsign001_zps518d77ec.jpg
When I called to question the sign, the officer asked me what I wanted him do do about it. I replied that he should take it down, as it is not in compliance with state law. He replied snarkingly, "Duly Noted" and hung up."

Whether you like the OCer is not really the point. a local govt seems to be messing with peoples rights.
 
DanM

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
TheQ said:
If I had legitimate business there, I'd just ignore the sign a d have my Qik running.
Click to expand...

+1. Raggs, signs that are in violation of preemption are unenforceable. The problem is, they (like illegal ordinances) often mislead police officers and the public. A misled police officer may think he is supposed to enforce the sign. So, your friend should have video/audio recording devices running when he is there for legitimate business. Also, if discussion to rectify the officer's understanding of the law fails, don't argue. Just ask him to go up the chain and call his supervisor or prosecutor.

Raggs said:
Waterford has a long record of making up the rules as they go, and this should be brought to light.
Click to expand...

Some communication steps your friend can take about the illegal sign, how misleading it is, and requesting it be taken down, in order of escalation (reference prior communication and unsatisfactory results, as he goes):
1)Email the police chief (reference the officer saying "Duly noted" with an insincere tone, and note that the sign is still up).
2)Email the prosecutor.
3)Email the mayor and city council.
4)Appear in person at city council meetings (put the call out here for others to go with him, too).

I'm next to Waterford, in W. Bloomfield, and I'm down with step 4 if we get to it.
 
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Venator

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
If it's the same department I have been in, they claim that since they have a tunnel to the jail, they are a jail and can prohibit firearms. Event though the doors leading in and out of the tunnel are locked.

I'm just not sure it's the same department I had a meeting at when discussing OC in one of the waterford schools.
 
Michigander

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
Last I heard, the Waterford PD has a screwy system where they promote based on time on the job, rather than merit. This I heard from a cop from another department, and he had nothing good to say about the chief, and as we have seen elsewhere with some rather colorful incidents, a bad chief will make the whole department screwed up.

So with that said, it would come as little surprise to me if their department couldn't care less about following the law, since it may very well be they are thoroughly unafraid of being caught red handed violating rights. Violating preemption is something very few cops would be too concerned with anyway, since there really aren't any prescribed penalties for doing so, unless you go to federal color of law statutes, and I'd have a very hard time believing that would go anywhere.
 
FreeInAZ

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Venator said:
If it's the same department I have been in, they claim that since they have a tunnel to the jail, they are a jail and can prohibit firearms. Event though the doors leading in and out of the tunnel are locked.

I'm just not sure it's the same department I had a meeting at when discussing OC in one of the waterford schools.
Click to expand...

Hey, I lived next to a bank once & the sidewalks connected to one another. Does this mean all the money inside was really mine? :confused:
 
Shadow Bear

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
Raggs said:
From an OCer
"I dropped off a registration in Waterford today, and noticed a problem. There was a sign requiring approval of all carried firearms by the desk sgt. This is in violation of 1102, "regulate in any other manner" part of preemption. I was wondering if you could start a thread on OCDO or MOC about this. Waterford has a long record of making up the rules as they go, and this should be brought to light. Link to pic below.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/stainless1911/WaterfordPDsign001_zps518d77ec.jpg
When I called to question the sign, the officer asked me what I wanted him do do about it. I replied that he should take it down, as it is not in compliance with state law. He replied snarkingly, "Duly Noted" and hung up."

Whether you like the OCer is not really the point. a local govt seems to be messing with peoples rights.
Click to expand...


How did you happen to bump into an OCer from clear across the state?

And, is there anything we could derive from the fact that the link is to one of stainless1911's personal pictures?

Since stainless has already crapped in the nest, he shouldn't compare his results with those of a 'normal' OCer.
 
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Raggs

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
Shadow Bear said:
How did you happen to bump into an OCer from clear across the state?

And, is there anything we could derive from the fact that the link is to one of stainless1911's personal pictures?

Since stainless has already crapped in the nest, he shouldn't compare his results with those of a 'normal' OCer.
Click to expand...

is the sign legal? just because someone you and most others don't like posts the image does not make it any less real.
 
A

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
Raggs said:
is the sign legal? just because someone you and most others don't like posts the image does not make it any less real.
Click to expand...

No it is not legal. However some people always have more problems exercising rights then everyone else because they go around poking the bear for no good reason. Not a joke about a mod...... now with that said they then have little to no traction with their local officials to correct these types of issues as they are seen as nuts. Right or wrong perception is important.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
 
Evil Creamsicle

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
autosurgeon said:
No it is not legal. However some people always have more problems exercising rights then everyone else because they go around poking the bear for no good reason. Not a joke about a mod...... now with that said they then have little to no traction with their local officials to correct these types of issues as they are seen as nuts. Right or wrong perception is important.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

It could be that he recognizes this, and is in fact reaching out to OCDO to obtain help from someone with better... say... rapport?
 
B

budlight

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
Raggs said:
From an OCer
"I dropped off a registration in Waterford today, and noticed a problem. There was a sign requiring approval of all carried firearms by the desk sgt. This is in violation of 1102, "regulate in any other manner" part of preemption. I was wondering if you could start a thread on OCDO or MOC about this. Waterford has a long record of making up the rules as they go, and this should be brought to light. Link to pic below.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/stainless1911/WaterfordPDsign001_zps518d77ec.jpg
When I called to question the sign, the officer asked me what I wanted him do do about it. I replied that he should take it down, as it is not in compliance with state law. He replied snarkingly, "Duly Noted" and hung up."

Whether you like the OCer is not really the point. a local govt seems to be messing with peoples rights.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the form stainless1911.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
I find it astonishingly humorous that one person by the internet nickname of Stainless1911 can generate so much of a following that even after he is gone his name is mentioned over and over.... even to the point of accusing those new to the forum of being yet another iteration of Stainless...

Say what you will folks but it is painfully, or perhaps gut bustingly humorously funny, that Stainless1911 has left an indelible mark upon this forum....

But then the only reason that indelible mark is upon this forum is certain folks won't let their urinating contest with Stainless1911 go.....

Which says much more about those who can't let it go than it says about Stainless1911...........
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FreeInAZ

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
I have a good idea - I think? Just as people have swear jars we should have a st***less jar so to speak. Whenever someone writes his name in a post they would agree to pay a $50 fee that goes to the MOC vs CADL fund. I bet we could fund the case work in a couple of months. :rolleyes:
 
DrTodd

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Bikenut said:
I find it astonishingly humorous that one person by the internet nickname of Stainless1911 can generate so much of a following that even after he is gone his name is mentioned over and over.... even to the point of accusing those new to the forum of being yet another iteration of Stainless...

Say what you will folks but it is painfully, or perhaps gut bustingly humorously funny, that Stainless1911 has left an indelible mark upon this forum....

But then the only reason that indelible mark is upon this forum is certain folks won't let their urinating contest with Stainless1911 go.....

Which says much more about those who can't let it go than it says about Stainless1911...........
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. The fact that posts were deleted because someone MAY have been an attempt by one person to maintain his presence on here does not show the best side of OCDO. We are our own worst enemies.
 
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