Illegal seisure of gun ?

davidmcbeth · Mar 5, 2013

scot623 said:
The real answer? Not much. Unless you get your law degree or find a lawyer who likes to work for free. Truth of the matter is the civil damages(IF you win)for having your gun "seized" during an OC stop will be nearly non-existent. So how much money would you spend to "make a point" that your rights were violated?

It's going to cost you at least $2500-$5000 to retain a lawyer(IF you can find one to take the case, that's why I recommended getting your law degree). After you hopefully win the case, you "MIGHT" win the $5000(HIGHLY doubtful) back. So after your lawyer gets his cut of the winnings(40-50%) you break even or LOSE $2500(that's why finding a lawyer who works for free is needed) just to make a point. Some would say "its not about the money" and a true patriot would happily lose $2500 to prove a point. Would that be you?

File pro se ... is my motto ... $500 is all it costs (except for depositions if you want to depose anyone) ..and maybe $100 for jury fee.

I file civil cases for MONEY not "to teach them a lesson" ... [...]

PART OF COMMENT DELETED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Unacceptable on this forum

scot623 · Mar 5, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
File pro se ... is my motto ... $500 is all it costs (except for depositions if you want to depose anyone) ..and maybe $100 for jury fee.

I file civil cases for MONEY not "to teach them a lesson" ... PART OF COMMENT DELETED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Unacceptable on this forum

Can you cite one 42 USC 1983 action filed pro se and won by the plaintiff?? I'd love to see the payout on that.

moriar · Mar 6, 2013

scot623 said:
Can you cite one 42 USC 1983 action filed pro se and won by the plaintiff?? I'd love to see the payout on that.

scot do not read anything david mcbeth writes, he posts all the time about use of violence towards law enforcement and doing illegal activities.

FORD78 · Mar 7, 2013

Im not sure how much its worth to prove a point. Non gun related but i was very unlawfuly treated by a LEO for a traffic incident years ago and i didnt take any legal action against them. basicaly it was pay the $400 and forget it ever happen or pursue it with threat from court of court fees loss of work etc etc. If i could go back in time i would have taken a loan out just to let the LEO and system know they didnt get away with acting outside the law this time. I think in most cases sadly it comes down to how much $ you have to spend. If more people would pursue and press charges for having our rights trampled on it would be a huge help. JMO

Citizen · Mar 7, 2013

moriar said:
scot do not read anything david mcbeth writes, he posts all the time about use of violence towards law enforcement and doing illegal activities.

That was out of bounds, Moriar.

I'm not a big fan of McBeth, but:

1. He does not post all the time about use of violence towards LE. He might post frequently about it, I can't say for sure. But, I can't recall the last time he posted such, so its definitely not "all the time."

2. Your comment about "doing illegal activities" is a serious accusation. Its a ban-able offense on this forum if repeated. The moderators and owners have exactly zero tolerance for advocating illegal activity. First, I dispute your accusation that he writes such "all the time." And, second, I demand to see your evidence for such a serious accusation.

TheQ · Mar 7, 2013

Citizen said:
That was out of bounds, Moriar.

I'm not a big fan of McBeth, but:

1. He does not post all the time about use of violence towards LE. He might post frequently about it, I can't say for sure. But, I can't recall the last time he posted such, so its definitely not "all the time."

2. Your comment about "doing illegal activities" is a serious accusation. Its a ban-able offense on this forum if repeated. The moderators and owners have exactly zero tolerance for advocating illegal activity. First, I dispute your accusation that he writes such "all the time." And, second, I demand to see your evidence for such a serious accusation.

davidmcbeth said:
File pro se ... is my motto ... $500 is all it costs (except for depositions if you want to depose anyone) ..and maybe $100 for jury fee.

I file civil cases for MONEY not "to teach them a lesson" ... I have rifles for that

The man's words speak for themselves. Are his rifles going to teach a lesson locked away in his safe of when he gets the revolution he's seemingly looking for?

Citizen · Mar 7, 2013

TheQ said:
The man's words speak for themselves. Are his rifles going to teach a lesson locked away in his safe of when he gets the revolution he's seemingly looking for?

Oh, give me a break. Are you really going to argue that an indirect reference to the basic human right of rebellion against tyranny marks McBeth as "writing about illegal actions all the time" or violence against cops "all the time"? Really?

Especially when McBeth's immediately previous comment was about using the courts? Really?

TheQ · Mar 7, 2013

Citizen said:
Oh, give me a break. Are you really going to argue that an indirect reference to the basic human right of rebellion against tyranny marks McBeth as "writing about illegal actions all the time" or violence against cops "all the time"? Really?

Especially when McBeth's immediately previous comment was about using the courts? Really?

I wasn't aware that this forum was a place that could be used to discuss or make inferences to An armed rebellion.

I wonder what John Pierce would have to say about that idea.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Last I knew, killing lawmakers or law enforcers because you don't agree with the law is illegal… Has that changed?

Certainly, we can all think of these things. I don't think a public forum is the proper place to say them. That was the problem that many here had with stainless1911

papa bear · Mar 7, 2013

CASPER, he might have said get a "gun" lawyer. too many lawyers just want to take the easy road.

i have refused to be disarmed and i knew they pretty much could do anything they wanted to. but i think the one time i had to do it, the LEO was shocked and didn't know what to do from there. end story was he left my firearm alone. he told me to keep my hand in sight and i said i was way ahead of him.

kept it friendly, polite, but firm

OC4me · Mar 7, 2013

Casper,

Don't forget to have an audio recorder (or two) running at all times while OCing (if you are really worried about law enforcement interaction). You'll do well to have proof that consent was not granted if you are going to make a complaint and/or file suit. If you are also able to get the cop to 'admit' on the recording that OCing was the 'only' reason he stopped you, all the better!

Good luck!

Raggs · Mar 7, 2013

If people have issues with posts why don't they take it up with the moderators and leave the threads alone? do we really need to have Stainless brought up, AGAIN! If people don't like davidmcbeth then take it to John Pierce.

TheQ said:
I wasn't aware that this forum was a place that could be used to discuss or make inferences to An armed rebellion.

I wonder what John Pierce would have to say about that idea.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Last I knew, killing lawmakers or law enforcers because you don't agree with the law is illegal… Has that changed?

Certainly, we can all think of these things. I don't think a public forum is the proper place to say them. That was the problem that many here had with stainless1911

Tucker6900 · Mar 8, 2013

The removal of your firearm seems to be the standard for "officer safety". Illegal seizure? Probably, but to what end does one take it? Some believe that its best to let them take it, complete the stop, file a formal complaint(that will probably go no where), sue the offending city. There are a few that believe resistance is the only way. But that brings a great possibility, especially in the current police state we have, of getting shot by an officer who felt "threatened". We have the right, Affirmed by the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the *USSC, to resist , even to the point of using deadly force. We also have the right, affirmed by the same, to carry a firearm without being **acosted.

Resist or obey. The choice is yours.

I will confirm what the others have said, contact a lawyer, as the member advice from this site can only be construed as that. Taking some time to study the laws of the area would be of great benefit to anyone.

*

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

**

As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)

Tucker6900 · Mar 8, 2013

TheQ said:
I wasn't aware that this forum was a place that could be used to discuss or make inferences to An armed rebellion.

I wonder what John Pierce would have to say about that idea.

(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

Last I knew, killing lawmakers or law enforcers because you don't agree with the law is illegal… Has that changed?

Certainly, we can all think of these things. I don't think a public forum is the proper place to say them. That was the problem that many here had with stainless1911

Disagreeing with a law and resisting the enforcement of an illegal one is two completely different things. Resisting an unlawful arrest, even if the officer thinks what he is doing is legal, is a right of all people. It seems you believe that resistance should be illegal. If thats the case, maybe you should go here. Either way, rule 15 is one of the reasons why we are where we are in this country. We have been too dependent on the "lawmakers" to save us.

FreeInAZ · Mar 8, 2013

Tucker6900 said:
Disagreeing with a law and resisting the enforcement of an illegal one is two completely different things. Resisting an unlawful arrest, even if the officer thinks what he is doing is legal, is a right of all people. It seems you believe that resistance should be illegal. If thats the case, maybe you should go here. Either way, rule 15 is one of the reasons why we are where we are in this country. We have been too dependent on the "lawmakers" to save us.

Great point. However I too must agree that some of the posts the banned person made were very questionable,and at times down right looney (I believe done so intentionally) just to get attention. I always said the best way to get some one to stop posting gibberish: is to ignore them, not ban them. Once you ban them you get the "spamming" of them trying to come back a million times plus - like one of our most notorious trolls here. The mods simply gave up trying to ban him & let him post at will (after threat of legal action) by the owners of this site. MY POINT: want someone to go away ignore them, not piss & moan about them for years on end, doing so only guarantees they will never leave, as they feed on turmoil & DRAMA!

Rant off now - as 99% of the posters here will continue to feed them with attention, thus telling me: they really to do miss them and want them here. So who really are the trolls?

Now can we please get back on topic? I believe this thread is about illegal seizures of lawfully carried sidearms & what can be done if this happens to an OCer.

papa bear · Mar 9, 2013

i would like to reiterate here. A LEO can bend you over the car pull down your pants and BF you right then and there and there ain't a thing you can legally do about it. if you fight you will get charged with ; striking and officer (felony), resiting arrest (even though you have not been arrested), obstruction, creating a public disturbance, etc. , etc. in which case you will be found guilty. as for the BF you will have to bring charges and proof that it happened

power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

Skeeterkiller · Mar 9, 2013

FreeInAZ said:
Great point. However I too must agree that some of the posts the banned person made were very questionable,and at times down right looney (I believe done so intentionally) just to get attention. I always said the best way to get some one to stop posting gibberish: is to ignore them, not ban them. Once you ban them you get the "spamming" of them trying to come back a million times plus - like one of our most notorious trolls here. The mods simply gave up trying to ban him & let him post at will (after threat of legal action) by the owners of this site. MY POINT: want someone to go away ignore them, not piss & moan about them for years on end, doing so only guarantees they will never leave, as they feed on turmoil & DRAMA!

Rant off now - as 99% of the posters here will continue to feed them with attention, thus telling me: they really to do miss them and want them here. So who really are the trolls?

Now can we please get back on topic? I believe this thread is about illegal seizures of lawfully carried sidearms & what can be done if this happens to an OCer.

Glock9mmOldFool? :banana:

FreeInAZ · Mar 9, 2013

papa bear said:
i would like to reiterate here. A LEO can bend you over the car pull down your pants and BF you right then and there and there ain't a thing you can legally do about it. if you fight you will get charged with ; striking and officer (felony), resiting arrest (even though you have not been arrested), obstruction, creating a public disturbance, etc. , etc. in which case you will be found guilty. as for the BF you will have to bring charges and proof that it happened

power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

Sadly, you are correct papa bear. Our "free American" lifestyle, ain't what it used to be...:uhoh:

Conform or be crushed under jackboots seems to be the new "public service message"!

Big Gay Al · Mar 11, 2013

papa bear said:
i would like to reiterate here. A LEO can bend you over the car pull down your pants and BF you right then and there and there ain't a thing you can legally do about it. if you fight you will get charged with ; striking an officer (felony), resiting arrest (even though you have not been arrested), obstruction, creating a public disturbance, etc. , etc. in which case you will be found guilty. as for the BF you will have to bring charges and proof that it happened

power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

Fixed it for you.

papa bear · Mar 12, 2013

Big Gay Al said:
Fixed it for you.

had it that way first draft didn't like it and changed it

Illegal seisure of gun ?

davidmcbeth

Banned

scot623

Regular Member

moriar

Regular Member

FORD78

Regular Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

TheQ

Regular Member

Citizen

Founder's Club Member

TheQ

Regular Member

papa bear

Regular Member

OC4me

Regular Member

Raggs

Regular Member

Tucker6900

Regular Member

Tucker6900

Regular Member

FreeInAZ

Regular Member

papa bear

Regular Member

Skeeterkiller

Regular Member

FreeInAZ

Regular Member

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator

papa bear

Regular Member