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Thread: Austin homeowner shot by cop

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Austin homeowner shot by cop

    http://www.keyetv.com/news/features/...95.shtml?wap=0

    A North Austin man was killed Friday morning after dog attack call turned into a police shooting.
    It happened just before 8 a.m. at a home in the 10000 block of Lanshire Drive, just east of Metric Blvd. and south of Kramer Lane.
    Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo says a man at the home called police that morning saying he had shot and killed a pit bull that had attacked him in the backyard.
    Acevedo says 911 dispatchers told the man that he needed to put the weapon away when the officers arrived but the man refused.
    When officers met the man outside he had a handgun in his waistband. Officers told him to put the weapon away, but he again refused, according to Acevedo.
    When the officer tried to reach for the gun to secure it the man stepped back and pulled the gun out and pointed it at the officer who then shot the man, according to Acevedo.
    EMS responded to the scene and the man was pronounced dead at the scene.
    Chief Acevedo says the investigation into the shooting is ongoing with the help of the police monitor. The officer has been placed on administrative leave.
    North Austin Man Killed In Police Shooting
    I'm wondering if the cop didn't like it the guy wouldn't disarm and then shot him.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Does that cop in Texas have the authority to order a citizen to disarm on his own property? If that cop does have the authority to disarm the citizen and the citizen is then alleged to point his firearm at the cop to prevent being disarmed, the reported outcome will result.

    If that cop does not have the authority to disarm a citizen on his own property, the alleged gun pointing means the reported outcome will result.

    Either way, you are alleged to point a gun at a cop you should expect a similar result.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Does that cop in Texas have the authority to order a citizen to disarm on his own property? If that cop does have the authority to disarm the citizen and the citizen is then alleged to point his firearm at the cop to prevent being disarmed, the reported outcome will result.

    If that cop does not have the authority to disarm a citizen on his own property, the alleged gun pointing means the reported outcome will result.

    Either way, you are alleged to point a gun at a cop you should expect a similar result.
    Well, we don't know if the guy pointed his firearm at the cop or not. We only have one side of the story since the other guy is dead.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Of course he pointed his pistol at the cops, the cops say so.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Does that cop in Texas have the authority to order a citizen to disarm on his own property?
    Not by statute, but good luck getting a judge to rule anything other than police having blanket authority to disarm.

    Texas Government Code 411.207

    AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
    (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

    (b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.

    (c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when the license holder enters the nonpublic, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.

    (d) In this section:
    (1) "Law enforcement facility" means a building or a portion of a building used exclusively by a law enforcement agency that employs peace officers as described by Articles 2.12(1) and (3), Code of Criminal Procedure, and support personnel to conduct the official business of the agency. The term does not include:
    (A) any portion of a building not actively used exclusively to conduct the official business of the agency; or
    (B) any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk, walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) "Nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility" means that portion of a law enforcement facility to which the general public is denied access without express permission and to which access is granted solely to conduct the official business of the law enforcement agency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Of course he pointed his pistol at the cops, the cops say so.
    he drew a sketch of it .. so there's proof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    he drew a sketch of it .. so there's proof.
    Cops LIE, people DIE. I don't trust cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Not by statute, but good luck getting a judge to rule anything other than police having blanket authority to disarm.

    Texas Government Code 411.207

    AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
    (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

    (b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.

    (c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when the license holder enters the nonpublic, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.

    (d) In this section:
    (1) "Law enforcement facility" means a building or a portion of a building used exclusively by a law enforcement agency that employs peace officers as described by Articles 2.12(1) and (3), Code of Criminal Procedure, and support personnel to conduct the official business of the agency. The term does not include:
    (A) any portion of a building not actively used exclusively to conduct the official business of the agency; or
    (B) any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk, walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) "Nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility" means that portion of a law enforcement facility to which the general public is denied access without express permission and to which access is granted solely to conduct the official business of the law enforcement agency.


    Only applies to CHL Holders.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Cop orders citizen to disarm.

    Citizen complies touching gun.

    Citizen is shot.

    Not hard here to see the real story, just wondering if the Austin public does. If the officer wanted the man disarmed he should have ordered him to put his hands on his head and disarmed him, not tell him to touch his gun. The cops story stinks.
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  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I have a very hard time imagining this going down in a way which is legitimate or justifiable.

    One way or another, this amounted to the sentence for contempt of cop.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    "It's for your safety and mine."

    Since discharging a firearm within city limits is a crime, the cop actually has The Law on his side to disarm the homeowner.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MT3CihStFQ

    The place to argue about whether the cop has the legal right or authority to do X is not on the side of the road/in your back yard - or even in whatever room the door they just kicked in leads to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5puAN1PGQw Well, 2 out of 3.

    stay safe.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    "It's for your safety and mine."

    Since discharging a firearm within city limits is a crime, the cop actually has The Law on his side to disarm the homeowner.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MT3CihStFQ

    The place to argue about whether the cop has the legal right or authority to do X is not on the side of the road/in your back yard - or even in whatever room the door they just kicked in leads to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5puAN1PGQw Well, 2 out of 3.

    stay safe.
    True, but the idea that a person is unsafe, or the gun is taken for safety, AND the citizen is allowed or actually told to touch the gun is insane, and unbelievable on the surface. If the gun was already in the citizen's hands I might have bought the story, but the fact that the officer claims that he told the citizen to disarm is a indication to me the story is a lie.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    True, but the idea that a person is unsafe, or the gun is taken for safety, AND the citizen is allowed or actually told to touch the gun is insane, and unbelievable on the surface. If the gun was already in the citizen's hands I might have bought the story, but the fact that the officer claims that he told the citizen to disarm is a indication to me the story is a lie.
    Mmm, yes, that's a good point.

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    further--"the citizen pointed the gun at the officer who then shot him" If the citizen had the drop on him it is unlikely the officer was fast enough to "beat the drop" and shoot him. Sounds fishy at best but the courts will rule for the officer even if his actions were outside the law.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    Only applies to CHL Holders.
    Yes, that's why I said "not by statute", then gave the only two situations where police may disarm someone by statutory law.

    But again: good luck finding any judge who won't always find in favor of police disarming anyone, any time, anywhere.

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