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Thread: Confusing VA law

  1. #1
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    Confusing VA law

    Ok, my question, if 308. Makes #10 an exemption to the law, how then can 308.1, which also recognizes the exemptions in 308, require it to be unloaded?


    18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    The exemptions set out in 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle;

    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry; penalty.

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel; and

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    Ok, my question, if 308. Makes #10 an exemption to the law, how then can 308.1, which also recognizes the exemptions in 308, require it to be unloaded?


    18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    The exemptions set out in 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle;

    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry; penalty.

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel; and
    I think 308.1 is very clear that it's generally unlawful to carry firearms on school grounds excepts as allowed under 308.1. For this reason, mutatis mutandis language appears to be of no value in construing 308.1.

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    But then it says the exemptions in 308. apply... which one of them is a loaded gun secured in a compartment... SO if that exemption applies, why then does it say you have to unload in 308.1.

    It is contradictory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    But then it says the exemptions in 308. apply... which one of them is a loaded gun secured in a compartment... SO if that exemption applies, why then does it say you have to unload in 308.1.

    It is contradictory.
    It is and it isn't. What it is is P4P.

    Normal people have to put their guns away unloaded but special people with a CHP can continue to keep it loaded in the car.
    That's because of all the specialized training CHP people have and the likelihood that a terrorist will pass by when someone is in the MOM LINE.

    A little confusion is the least we can expect when we start carving out exceptions.
    Last edited by peter nap; 03-05-2013 at 08:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFCop View Post
    Ok, my question, if 308. Makes #10 an exemption to the law, how then can 308.1, which also recognizes the exemptions in 308, require it to be unloaded?


    18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    The exemptions set out in 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle;

    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry; penalty.

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel; and
    I don't see a conflict between these two sections.

    The provision in 308.1 addresses a general case of "a person who possesses an unloaded firearm", which includes leaving the gun in the vehicle when exiting the vehicle. The provision in 308 deals with the case of when a person is "carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle". It doesn't apply once you exit the vehicle.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It is and it isn't. What it is is P4P.

    Normal people have to put their guns away unloaded but special people with a CHP can continue to keep it loaded in the car.
    That's because of all the specialized training CHP people have and the likelihood that a terrorist will pass by when someone is in the MOM LINE.

    A little confusion is the least we can expect when we start carving out exceptions.
    Neither of those provisions are P4P. Neither one mentions requiring a permit. (In fact, the quoted part from 18.2-308 is an exemption to requiring a permit, not a perk for having a permit.)

    The P4P part of 18.2-308.1 comes later: "The provisions of this section shall not apply to ... (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school."

    By my reading, these three separate provisions work together as follows:

    1) Anyone can leave a gun in their car on school property as long as it is unloaded in a closed container.
    2) Anyone can have a loaded handgun in their car on school property as long as it is in a secured container and they stay in the car.
    3) Anyone with a CHP can carry on school property as long as they don't get out of their car.

    The OP was asking about situations 1 and 2. Your complaint is about situation 3 (and even then, I wouldn't categorize it as a perk, because it still is directly tied to the actual act of carrying).
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grylnsmn View Post
    I don't see a conflict between these two sections.

    The provision in 308.1 addresses a general case of "a person who possesses an unloaded firearm", which includes leaving the gun in the vehicle when exiting the vehicle. The provision in 308 deals with the case of when a person is "carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle". It doesn't apply once you exit the vehicle.

    Neither of those provisions are P4P. Neither one mentions requiring a permit. (In fact, the quoted part from 18.2-308 is an exemption to requiring a permit, not a perk for having a permit.)

    The P4P part of 18.2-308.1 comes later: "The provisions of this section shall not apply to ... (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school."

    By my reading, these three separate provisions work together as follows:

    1) Anyone can leave a gun in their car on school property as long as it is unloaded in a closed container.
    2) Anyone can have a loaded handgun in their car on school property as long as it is in a secured container and they stay in the car.
    3) Anyone with a CHP can carry on school property as long as they don't get out of their car.

    The OP was asking about situations 1 and 2. Your complaint is about situation 3 (and even then, I wouldn't categorize it as a perk, because it still is directly tied to the actual act of carrying).
    Actually the complaint is about all three but you're right about the permit section.

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