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Thread: Firearms and Felons , whats legal , whats illegal

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    Regular Member J-SiN's Avatar
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    Firearms and Felons , whats legal , whats illegal

    After much searching I have some unanswered questions that hopefully someone here can touch on.

    1. Can a felon live in someones elses house that legally owns a firearm?
    2. Can I felon visit someones house that owns a firearm
    3. Can a woman ( that carries a gun) marry a felon and keep a firearm in the house legally.
    4. Can a felon posses ammunition?
    5. Can a felon posses shell casings and or reloading equiptment

    thank you much!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Google is your friend:

    NC General Statutes ,Chapter 14 Article 54A1,Article 54A.

    The Felony Firearms Act.

    14 - 415.1. Possession of firearms, etc., by felon prohibited.

    (a)

    It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted of a felony to purchase,
    own, possess, or have in his custody, care, or control any firearm or any weapon of mass death
    and destruction as defined in G.S. 1 - 288.8(c). For the purposes of this section, a firearm is (i)
    any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
    expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, or its frame or receiver, or (ii) any firearm
    muffler or firearm silencer. This section does not apply to an antique firearm, as defined in G.S.
    14 - 409.11.

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...rticle_54A.pdf
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-06-2013 at 09:57 PM. Reason: link
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-SiN View Post
    After much searching I have some unanswered questions that hopefully someone here can touch on.

    1. Can a felon live in someones elses house that legally owns a firearm?
    2. Can I felon visit someones house that owns a firearm
    3. Can a woman ( that carries a gun) marry a felon and keep a firearm in the house legally.
    4. Can a felon posses ammunition?
    5. Can a felon posses shell casings and or reloading equiptment

    thank you much!
    A felon cannot POSSESS a firearm (ie have access to it) .. so you can take that & apply it to the situations ...

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    Regular Member J-SiN's Avatar
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    so all 5 situations are illegal?

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    No where does it say have access to or be in the vicinity of. Being in a house or a car of someone that legally owns a firearm does not put you in possession, ownership or control of a firearm. This is as long as they properly secure the firearm(s). No where doe it mention ammo or reloading supplies. NC statutes use the term "access to" so it would have been easy to include that here but it wasn't. If I owned firearms and had a housemate at no time would they be in possession of, own, or control my firearms unless I allowed them to. The person would be in the vicinity and would potentially have access to them if they were unsecured but no where does the statute say "access to or in the vicinity of". I apologize for repeating myself but I am trying to show the distinction .

    This is my interpretation of the statute and my opinion.

    This topic has been discussed Ad Nauseam here and multiple other places. The only case I can find where felon was convicted of possession because his wife owned guns is a Bremerton Wa. man who was convicted because he took the cops to where his wife kept the guns (unsecured) during a breaking and entering investigation at his home. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2423380/posts
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 03-07-2013 at 07:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    A felon cannot POSSESS a firearm (ie have access to it) .. so you can take that & apply it to the situations ...
    Possession and access are two totally different legal terms. I have access to select fire firearms through a friend but at no time can I be in possession of them. They must be in his possession. I can handle and shoot them but he has to be present and in possession of the firearms.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Constructive possession

    Please note that their is a difference between "actual" and "constructive" possession:
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...ive+Possession

    ************************************************** ******

    Possession of a firearm may be either actual or constructive. The latter has been defined as
    follows: “Constructive possession exists when a person knowingly has the power and intention at
    a given time of exercising dominion and control over the object or over the area in which the object
    is locate....” (See U.S. v Booth, et.al. 111 F.3d 2 [1st Cir. September 1997]). If you know the
    firearm is present in your residence, vehicle, etc., and if it can be shown that you have the ability to
    access and exercise control over that firearm personally or through another individual, then you
    could be considered to have constructive possession of the firearm. You would then be subject to
    new criminal charges and/or revocation of supervision. For these reasons, all firearms are to be
    removed from your residence during the term of supervision.

    Note that ammunition is listed as a no-no.
    http://www.rip.uscourts.gov/rip/supe...rohibition.pdf

    ************************************************** ****

    I do agree that securing firearms (gun safe) where the felon does NOT have access or the other party is carrying in a holster on their person should be no problem.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-07-2013 at 10:18 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-SiN View Post
    After much searching I have some unanswered questions that hopefully someone here can touch on.

    1. Can a felon live in someones elses house that legally owns a firearm?
    2. Can I felon visit someones house that owns a firearm
    3. Can a woman ( that carries a gun) marry a felon and keep a firearm in the house legally.
    4. Can a felon posses ammunition?
    5. Can a felon posses shell casings and or reloading equiptment

    thank you much!
    This is what happens when we tolerate government infringing the basic human right of self-defense of ex-cons. The government takes that inch, and then distorts it all to heck, to the point government has to twist the language and create offenses like constructive possession in order to get some stats for a prosecutor.

    Wanta take a bet how far gun control would have gotten overall if everybody had stood up and refused the first legislation prohibiting felons from possessing the means to defend themselves?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    incrementalism is the basics of liberalism

    i once had a felon that lived in my house. under his order he could not touch my fire arms. since my fire arms were under my control, it did not apply to him. case in point if a felon was standing on the street next to a person carrying, then he would not be in violation of the law

    now i have talked to a guy that had to pay 10,000$, because he was caught with a bullet in his pocket.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The problem would come in to whose name is on the lease or deed or loan. Just in my opinion if a search warrant is served for the felons home, in his name, they would probably charge him with possession.

    But I am against limiting the rights of any person who is not incarcerated. If a person is that dangerous, leave them in prison. Not only does it pisss me off that they lose their right to exist after serving their time, so does their family.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    incrementalism is the basics of liberalism

    i once had a felon that lived in my house. under his order he could not touch my fire arms. since my fire arms were under my control, it did not apply to him. case in point if a felon was standing on the street next to a person carrying, then he would not be in violation of the law

    now i have talked to a guy that had to pay 10,000$, because he was caught with a bullet in his pocket.
    Just a bullet, or the a live round? A bullet is legal for a felon as long as it can be used in a antique firearm.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Grape you are right when you apply the federal laws about felons possessing ammo. I was only debating the State Statutes. With our backlogged judicial system I think you would be hard pressed to find a federal prosecutor to charge someone with ammo possession in the case of it belonging to someone else but constructive possession could possibly be proven. If anyone wants to see how constructive possession can be used check this case out.

    http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/j...#axzz2MrBXURnp
    "I'm kinda high (or maybe low) profile around here, to hate on me is just sour grapes." - NCHeel

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Grape you are right when you apply the federal laws about felons possessing ammo. I was only debating the State Statutes. With our backlogged judicial system I think you would be hard pressed to find a federal prosecutor to charge someone with ammo possession in the case of it belonging to someone else but constructive possession could possibly be proven. If anyone wants to see how constructive possession can be used check this case out.

    http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/j...#axzz2MrBXURnp
    That was a sad case. Victimless crime. no harm done, law written after the fact - he talked too much. Never saw if he appealed or the results.

    Would have originally been a good opportunity for jury nullification IMO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Grape you are right when you apply the federal laws about felons possessing ammo. I was only debating the State Statutes. With our backlogged judicial system I think you would be hard pressed to find a federal prosecutor to charge someone with ammo possession in the case of it belonging to someone else but constructive possession could possibly be proven. If anyone wants to see how constructive possession can be used check this case out.

    http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/j...#axzz2MrBXURnp
    I wonder if the wife will file a civil rights case, her rights are being violated by limiting her right to self defense and the 2A. She has committed no crime, IMO neither did he. If he goes to prison their is no legal reason to deny property legally hers, even if he does not go to prison. She only needs trigger locks that only she has the key to comply with the law. Arresting him for possession would for pointing out the firearms would be the same as arresting him for burglary for calling the police.

    The felony gun control laws are not only stupid but unconstitutional, and they do not work.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    --snipped--

    The felony gun control laws are not only stupid but unconstitutional, and they do not work.
    If gun control laws only make one feel good, why don't I feel good?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If gun control laws only make one feel good, why don't I feel good?
    cuz it only makes ONE feel good. You are not the ONE.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmatting View Post
    cuz it only makes ONE feel good. You are not the ONE.
    Want to know what is scary? That makes sense to me
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Just a bullet, or the a live round? A bullet is legal for a felon as long as it can be used in a antique firearm.
    just the bullet. he kept it as a souvenir. got stopped/ search. when they did a check found out he was a felon (i believe they already knew). don't know the guys name met him at a booth
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  19. #19
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    just the bullet. he kept it as a souvenir. got stopped/ search. when they did a check found out he was a felon (i believe they already knew). don't know the guys name met him at a booth
    That sounds strange unless the state he is from outlaws felons from antique firearms. Cartridge components that have been in interstate commerce are illegal for a felon. But a lead bullet for a muzzle loader is legal by federal law for a felon to purchase and posses.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-SiN
    1. Can a felon live in someones elses house that legally owns a firearm?
    2. Can I felon visit someones house that owns a firearm?
    3. Can a woman (that carries a gun) marry a felon and keep a firearm in the house legally?
    Yes. My rights are not affected by your screwing up.
    Except that the felon cannot have access to the firearms or ammunition. They either have to be locked up or in the possession of the citizen.

    4. Can a felon posses ammunition?
    5. Can a felon posses shell casings and or reloading equipment
    No, no, and yes.

    You want to read 18USC921(17)(a) for the definition of 'ammunition':
    The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
    And 18USC922 for more answers.
    (d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
    ... to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
    So both ends of the transaction are illegal - the person letting the felon have a firearm or ammo, and the felon in possession.


    And something I think gets ignored far too often, since rich felons sometimes hire bodyguards:
    18USC922
    (h) It shall be unlawful for any individual, who to that individual’s knowledge and while being employed for any person described in any paragraph of subsection (g) of this section, in the course of such employment—(1) to receive, possess, or transport any firearm or ammunition in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce
    And for a discussion of what constitutes a felony for purposes of 18USC922...
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ou-think-it-is
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-08-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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