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Thread: trying to explain "gun culture"

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    trying to explain "gun culture"

    http://tinyurl.com/ckvrzbg

    Dan Baum is not your typical gun guy. He has a lifelong love of firearms he can trace back to the age of five. But he's also a Jewish Democrat and a former staff writer for The New Yorker and feels like a misfit next to most gun owners, who identify overwhelmingly on the conservative side of the spectrum.

    In order to bridge this gap, Baum set off on a cross-country journey, chatting with everyone from a gun store owner in Louisville to a wild boar hunter in Texas to a Hollywood armorer. The result is Gun Guys: A Road Trip. I spoke with Baum about his trek through gun country and why this issue is one of our nation's most complicated and politically divisive.

    You write that you didn't want to be part of a gun culture, even though you were a "gun guy" yourself. Why did you feel this conflict?

    This is one of the things I was trying to figure out -- why a fondness for firearms, these beautiful mechanical devices that are so fun to shoot, always seems to be found on the same chromosome as political conservatism. I'm not a conservative. At the same time, often I'd be around my "tribe" -- the liberals -- and they'd say these terrible things about gun people. "Gun nut," "penis envy," all this stuff. I'd keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel particularly comfortable with either group. That's why I always wanted to do this book.
    Actually, not so much what liberals (big L/little l) need to understand so much as trying to explain "gun culture" (that thing that makes us gun guys and them not gun guys as opposed to pro-/anti-gun) in a way that might pass across the Liberal/liberal anti-gun barrier.

    Go read it. Go figure it out.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 03-07-2013 at 06:01 PM. Reason: Fixed title
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    It just so happens that Tom Gresham of "Gun Talk" interviewed Mr. Baum just a few days ago. Here's where the podcast is located.

    http://guntalk.libsyn.com/guntalk-2013-03-03-part-b

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    What is a gun culture? And, who coined the term? A stereotypicist?

    I got five dollars that says it was invented by an anti-gunner to scare off people from self-defense. "Oh, no. I don't want to be a part of that culture."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    What is a gun culture? And, who coined the term? A stereotypicist?

    I got five dollars that says it was invented by an anti-gunner to scare off people from self-defense. "Oh, no. I don't want to be a part of that culture."
    You are a deeply committed part of a/the "gun culture". It occupies a significant portion of your philosophy, your politics, and your behavior, as well as having a great influence on the people you choose to associate with and choose not to associate with. You know, the usual stuff that defines one culture as opposed to all the other cultures.

    Most of the folks here on OCDO seem to tend towards the right of the bell curve of "gun guys" with opposing further limitations on RKBA and a desire to see restrictions on the Second Amendment lifted, as well as having it "enshrined" in the minds of the general population as strongly as the First Amendment.

    Given the efforts of the "anti-gun culture" we over on our side of the bell curve tend to see anything less than that as an actual assault on everything that makes up the "gun culture". It is what accounts for the animosity towards hunters and target shooters and collectors who are not right there manning the barricades and marching on City Hall/the State Capitol with us.

    Mr. Baum's book, with all its flaws and with all the baggage he carries with him (as we see things) is trying to show a way that might just eliminate some of the rigidity and emnity held by the different sides. That's not to say that he is right and we over here on this siode of the bell curve have been completely wrong. What I see is a different perspective on the notion of "compromise". Not political compromise (which generally means the pro sides gives up things incrementally while the anti side does not get to melt down all the guns right away) but philosophical and social compromise.

    For the record, I'm not giving up on being an adamant fighter to keep what we have left of the Second Amendment and the natural right of self defense, as well as restoring as much as possible of what has been lost. But I'm willing to consider a different way of trying to converse with the middle ground of the other side.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Regular Member mtlhdtodd's Avatar
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    If you have to explain it they just won't understand anyway.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    No way I'm taking That bet.

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    What "gun culture"?

    All one has to do is read this message board to discover a diverse group of people who share only common idea: each of us believe that he or she has the right to carry a firearm. Clearly, even some members don't believe that anyone other than she has any rights at all!

    Seriously, though, there is no gun culture. The search for it, and his belief that it is monolithic, reveals the mindset of the author more than that of any individual gun owner. Any group that values Liberty is, by nature, more diverse than any group the author belongs to.

    There are leftists out there with guns. They feel entitled. Not because they think, deep down, that carry is a right, but because somehow they are privileged and the rest of us, with few exceptions, are not.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    A self described liberal is anti-liberty and thus anti-citizen. Liberals vote for liberals who desire to terminate with extreme prejudice our enumerated natural right to choose how we defend our life, our liberty, and our property. It is this act that places a liberal with a gun in the same category as a liberal who detests guns, gun ownership, and gun owners.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    "Gun culture" is real. But the thing that drives some people crazy about it, is that they can't identify it by sight.

    Those on the left love to stereotype, while calling the rest of us racists, sexists, whateverists. While there are certain stereotypes that are part of gun culture, they are a minority and are far from universal. I don't own a single piece of camouflage clothing, for instance, nor any "tactical" gear. The only thing that distinguishes me from any other overweight middle aged white guy, is that I sometimes open carry.

    The "gun culture" includes Packing Pretty, Colion Noir, and even David Baum. Such individuality frightens leftists who must have a pigeonhole for everyone in order to know how to relate to them. When someone makes personal choices outside their defined role, leftists do not know how to react.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtlhdtodd View Post
    If you have to explain it they just won't understand anyway.
    Like the avatar! Kudos.

    We don't have a gun culture....we have a freedom culture ! Democrats love it when I say that

  11. #11
    Regular Member motoxmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    All one has to do is read this message board to discover a diverse group of people who share only common idea: each of us believe that he or she has the right to carry a firearm. Clearly, even some members don't believe that anyone other than she has any rights at all!
    lol! I see what you did there

    In all seriousness though, "gun culture" is like skin color. Yeah, it could be classified into different groups and such, but there's too many variations (similarities/differences/contradictions) within and between each "group" for it to be fair and accurate. also not to mention that doing so would simply be wrong.
    Last edited by motoxmann; 03-11-2013 at 12:56 AM.
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    trying to explain "gun culture"

    Quote Originally Posted by motoxmann View Post
    lol! I see what you did there

    In all seriousness though, "gun culture" is like skin color. Yeah, it could be classified into different groups and such, but there's too many variations (similarities/differences/contradictions) within and between each "group" for it to be fair and accurate. also not to mention that doing so would simply be wrong.
    It's what collectivist thinking does. It lumps people into groups, makes them fit some monolithic definition, and then reacts to members of the group as though they are all the same. That the author would demonstrate collectivist thinking is not surprising.

    To be Liberty-minded, folks need to look on People, even those who have something in common with others, as unique individuals.

    Remember that, folks, when some around here talk about members of a group monolithicly.


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  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Liberals are the same, without exception. Liberals are liberals first and foremost to the exclusion of all other concerns. Thus, liberty centric citizens need not fear being branded a "collectivist thinker" when classifying liberals as a anti-liberty and thus anti-citizen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member Talesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Liberals are the same, without exception. Liberals are liberals first and foremost to the exclusion of all other concerns. Thus, liberty centric citizens need not fear being branded a "collectivist thinker" when classifying liberals as a anti-liberty and thus anti-citizen.
    I can say this w/o reservation because I am approaching becoming as old as dirt.

    In my day as a youngster a liberal was someone who embraced and fought for personal liberties. A conservative, OTOH, embraced what was. Such as the continued ownership of slaves and keeping the indentured, indentured. Such were the Democrats at the turning of the century (who comprised the Klan, etal, make no mistake there)

    I am not exactly sure when that all changed but it is clearly evident that it did.

    Liberalism used to be a political philosophy founded on ideas of liberty and equality. They used to be called Republicans and republicans tried to free and arm slaves. Now all the descendants of the slaves are Democrats (remember, it was the Dems. who REFUSED to give up their mastery of slaves)....go figure!!! And it is now the Republicans (in the main) who have changed from liberals to conservatives and mostly stand for retaining liberty and defend the Constitution from liberal big-government-loving Dem attacks. It is all so confusing. Worse yet, factions within each side/party are trying to drag their respective party to outside extremes.

    It is hard to keep up. We really need to be like some other countries with 4-6 major parties who each have a set and unidentifiable agenda.

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